Hey, this is my first post other than introductions but I wanted to get some help making the decision to build a full scale integrated amp from the ground up or starting out with something like a Pioneer VSX-S300 then upgrading parts. I am also very new to the world diy audio electronics (other than some work with guitar amps and cabs), so yes I am a n00b so please be gentle 
. I have come up with tons of different parts lists but what’s interesting is that the S300 pretty much fits all requirements except power output. Would it be worthwhile to build from the ground up or essentially upgrade the power amp stage in the Pioneer? I think it would be really cool to build an entire amp myself, and I have some really cool ideas for UI using Arduino, but I am a bit overwhelmed at the thought starting from scratch. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
. I have come up with tons of different parts lists but what’s interesting is that the S300 pretty much fits all requirements except power output. Would it be worthwhile to build from the ground up or essentially upgrade the power amp stage in the Pioneer? I think it would be really cool to build an entire amp myself, and I have some really cool ideas for UI using Arduino, but I am a bit overwhelmed at the thought starting from scratch. Any recommendations would be appreciated. 
I suggest class D and switching supplies is not the first project to take on.
You don't just "upgrade" the power stage in an amp, be it switching or linear. Power output is the first parameter selected and everything that follows supports that decision.
What makes you think the output in the Pioneer is inadequate? 100W! What are you trying to drive, a stadium?
You don't just "upgrade" the power stage in an amp, be it switching or linear. Power output is the first parameter selected and everything that follows supports that decision.
What makes you think the output in the Pioneer is inadequate? 100W! What are you trying to drive, a stadium?
Ok, so swapping the power supply and power amp out for something like a pair of Icepower BTL 50asx2 would be out of the question? Again n00blet but I can learn so school me! It's not that 75w is inadequet for the current speakers I have now, 2 Onkyo towers with upgraded midbass and filtering. I used to play in bands in highschool and even 50 watt Overdriven Marshall amp with 4x12 cab of Celestion Greenbacks would shake the roof off a house, so I am well aware that 75 watts per channel is more than addequate. I work with computers, code, etc and I like finding ways to future proof even if the upgrade may be unecessary now. 100 watts per channel seems like a industry standard for most of the off the shelf receivers, so I'll admit that me hitting 2x100 may be driven by a bit of marketing hype, again, I know I don't need it. I am also wanting to increase fidelity. Do I need the end all be all of sound nirvana? Nope, but I do appriciate quality digital sound.
Well, for increasing fidelity, you might consider that ICE are ancient. I am by far not a class D expert. My suggestion is that Class D is a very difficult place to start DIY. IMHO, class D is not ready for prime time yet. I have only heard a couple of high end D amps, so not a fully informed view.
Have you looked at the mini-dsp stuff? Future proof? Sony will make sure you can't. The future is all about streaming and DSP and buying all your music again, and again, and again. I see a slow trend back to quality as the portability part has been pretty much solved. User interfaces are absolutely terrible, and that is a place a decent GUI coder could help. Speakers are a place I still see very gradual improvements due to materials, but the basics are not changing like the electronics side.
BTW, I have 5 systems running right now, running between 35 and 60W on the main channels. Of course, subs take more. Before you judge just watts, look at speaker efficiency. I bet those old Celestions are a lot more efficient than your towers. That 50W is probably more like 400W equivalent. Also , the difference between 70 and 100 W is trivial and would be barely preceptable. 70 to 140 is only 3 dB, about the minimum you will notice. Far more important is the reality of that power. Can the amp actually sustain that power or is it some bogus "music power" BS on a slick sheet. My 60W Hafler stereo amp weighs more than my 7 channel x 60 NAD. Listening to two channels of music, you would think the Hafler is a monster amp and the NAD a table radio. I happen to have a pair of HCA 1200's, so I also know what a "real" amp can do. They need re-capping so I am not using them right now. One thing I can't comment on is if class D has some of the natural break points as in analog. As an example, at about 40W, in a class B you really need to go to multiple output pairs. ( 100 W needs two pairs at least). The current capability of switching mosfets is increadable, so is the power just voltage and cooling?
I have several O-Audio plate amps, and they are weak at best, so I just got a Behringer iNuke 1000 as a next foray into class D for subs. It beats the BASH chips, but is no match for the big Parasounds, even for the subs. I will be curious as I play around inside the amp what I learn. Where can it be improved? Cooling for one, but are the output intigrators where it can be helped? Power supply? Input analog stages? How easy will it be to add variable phase and a parametric eq for my stereo systems with no other bass management? I already added a ssr for a standard 12V trigger.
A lot of different things here. Think about where it makes sense to start that gives you a fair chance at success. This hobby is real engineering. One of the best thing to do is be sure you don't read and "Hi-FI" magazines. Watch these forums and you will find a few folks that really do know about whatever piece you want to tackle first.
Have you looked at the mini-dsp stuff? Future proof? Sony will make sure you can't. The future is all about streaming and DSP and buying all your music again, and again, and again. I see a slow trend back to quality as the portability part has been pretty much solved. User interfaces are absolutely terrible, and that is a place a decent GUI coder could help. Speakers are a place I still see very gradual improvements due to materials, but the basics are not changing like the electronics side.
BTW, I have 5 systems running right now, running between 35 and 60W on the main channels. Of course, subs take more. Before you judge just watts, look at speaker efficiency. I bet those old Celestions are a lot more efficient than your towers. That 50W is probably more like 400W equivalent. Also , the difference between 70 and 100 W is trivial and would be barely preceptable. 70 to 140 is only 3 dB, about the minimum you will notice. Far more important is the reality of that power. Can the amp actually sustain that power or is it some bogus "music power" BS on a slick sheet. My 60W Hafler stereo amp weighs more than my 7 channel x 60 NAD. Listening to two channels of music, you would think the Hafler is a monster amp and the NAD a table radio. I happen to have a pair of HCA 1200's, so I also know what a "real" amp can do. They need re-capping so I am not using them right now. One thing I can't comment on is if class D has some of the natural break points as in analog. As an example, at about 40W, in a class B you really need to go to multiple output pairs. ( 100 W needs two pairs at least). The current capability of switching mosfets is increadable, so is the power just voltage and cooling?
I have several O-Audio plate amps, and they are weak at best, so I just got a Behringer iNuke 1000 as a next foray into class D for subs. It beats the BASH chips, but is no match for the big Parasounds, even for the subs. I will be curious as I play around inside the amp what I learn. Where can it be improved? Cooling for one, but are the output intigrators where it can be helped? Power supply? Input analog stages? How easy will it be to add variable phase and a parametric eq for my stereo systems with no other bass management? I already added a ssr for a standard 12V trigger.
A lot of different things here. Think about where it makes sense to start that gives you a fair chance at success. This hobby is real engineering. One of the best thing to do is be sure you don't read and "Hi-FI" magazines. Watch these forums and you will find a few folks that really do know about whatever piece you want to tackle first.
Hi,
Forget making a multichannel amplifier from the ground up,
you will waste a small fortune. Also IMO forget upgrading
parts, IMO spend your money on the best used piece of
kit you can get for your money and simply live with it.
Don't get me wrong, I can build amplifiers. But TBH what
is the point when you can pick up a Pioneer A-300X for
£50, and it would cost at least 6 times as much to be
able to build anything better, without the quite frankly
superb build quality and finish of the Pioneer.
rgds, sreten.
The A-300X is my favourite budget amplifier.
Half the price and miles better than a NAD3020.
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