TPA3116D2 Amp

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#7,423
Well there are plenty of places on net where designers and builders optimize snubber networks including voltage and current in the calculations, so that's not a surprise to see it effects power consumption.
The output zobel/snubber has to be optimised to driver so seems relevant to voltage/current, and the pre LC bootstrap snubber needs optimising according to the RLC of the LC inductor AND include gate voltage, current and on/off switching time in calculations, so again power consumption is in play.

Funnily enough, been slouched over desk all evening calculating output zobel values according to drivers!! 🙂
 
#7,424
"Mod Question From a Complete Novice"

I have purchased several of these type of amplifiers I.E. #1 SMSL 36 PRO 24VDC version, and #2 a couple of Muse D20 12 VDC version. They were all completed amps, and sounded pretty decent for my purposes, which was to drive the TABAQ/Tang Band W3-881SJ combinations I built for my daughter and 2 grandchildren. I got to thinking about picking up one of the YG completed boards with a volume pot for some music in my garage workshop. My question is have any of you guys replaced the output caps with a couple of Black Gates or Rubicon caps versus the Panasonic OSCON caps I've seen used in these threads? If you have splurged a few bucks more for the premium caps, was it worth the cost in significant improvement of the sound of the amp? Also I looked at the bootstrap mod you guys are doing, and I wonder how much that improves the dynamics of these little amps?? BTW the way, the bootstrap mod looks to be more complicated for my old eyes to accomplish, then de-soldering and re-soldering a couple of 2 leg caps!😱

Thanks For Your Wisdom,
Mac
 
#7,425
xrk971 said:
That's really interesting how the LC filter and snubbers affect power consumption. Are you talking about snubbers post LC filter or the pre LC filter bootstrap snubber that the EVM uses?
Click to expand...

I checked for the EVM-snubbers (those 220p+10R) and my EVM-filter, which is "LC" -> Ferrite + C as a replacement for a full reconstruction filter.,

So i have snubber + ferrite+c as the only "filters" for EVM.

stanleyburbick said:
The output zobel/snubber has to be optimised to driver so seems relevant to voltage/current, and the pre LC bootstrap snubber needs optimising according to the RLC of the LC inductor AND include gate voltage, current and on/off switching time in calculations, so again power consumption is in play.
Click to expand...

Current consumption was +-50uA the same with/without load. So the speakers were not really into this.
 
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#7,426
doctormord said:
The nearest, so 22k. (But depends on the rest of the implementation, there is always some margin)

I made myself the calculations for all steps with margins, you have not be exactly at the ds specs.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you just predict it... Late last night after your helpful answer I found a supplier of the resistors I want in both correct values. And he has the bootstrap snubber and output snubber values in same resistors!

Many thanks again.
 
#7,427
doctormord said:
I checked for the EVM-snubbers (those 220p+10R) and my EVM-filter, which is "LC" -> Ferrite + C as a replacement for a full reconstruction filter.,

So i have snubber + ferrite+c as the only "filters" for EVM.



Current consumption was +-50uA the same with/without load. So the speakers were not really into this.
Click to expand...

Your reply made me think. I expect this is old knowledge to you.. This is from SLVA079.....

"Quiescent, or ground current, is the difference between input and output currents. Low quiescent current is necessary to maximize the current efficiency.
Quiescent current consists of bias current (such as band-gap reference, sampling resistor, and error amplifier currents) and the gate drive current of the series pass element, which do not contribute to output power.
The value of quiescent current is mostly determined by the series pass element, topologies, ambient temperature, etc. For bipolar transistors, the quiescent current increases proportionally with the output current, because the series pass element is a current-driven device. In addition, in the dropout region the quiescent current can increase due to the additional parasitic current path between the emitter and the base of the bipolar transistor, which is caused by a lower base voltage than that of the output voltage.
For MOS transistors, the quiescent current has a near constant value with respect to the load current since the device is a voltage-driven device.
The only things that contribute to the quiescent current for MOS transistors are the biasing currents of band±gap, sampling resistor, and error amplifier.
In applications where power consumption is critical, or where small bias current is needed in comparison with the output current, an LDO voltage regulator using MOS transistors is essential."
 
#7,428
Hey guys I listed a new Pair of Cinemag Transformers on Swap Meet
Trust me using these in place of the input caps on the Tpa3116d2
Yields much bigger and deeper soundstage, deeper bass
Just ask Rhing and a few of the other guys on this thread who have tried it.
This was an extra set I bought from Cinemag when I modded my amp.
There is normally a wait when you order these.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/276259-fs-cinemag-cmll-15-15b-transformers.html
 
#7,429
bigaudioscotto said:
Hey guys I listed a new Pair of Cinemag Transformers on Swap Meet
Trust me using these in place of the input caps on the Tpa3116d2
Yields much bigger and deeper soundstage, deeper bass
Just ask Rhing and a few of the other guys on this thread who have tried it.
This was an extra set I bought from Cinemag when I modded my amp.
There is normally a wait when you order these.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/276259-fs-cinemag-cmll-15-15b-transformers.html
Click to expand...


Thanks for yet another confirmation of the Cinemags as one of the ultimate mods. It would be more popular if it weren't so darn rich for my blood. Has anyone compared sound quality from reasonably priced $30 Edcor vs $110 Cinemag?

Erik777 or Scott Garnin may have tried both.
 
#7,430
xrk971 said:
Thanks for yet another confirmation of the Cinemags as one of the ultimate mods. It would be more popular if it weren't so darn rich for my blood. Has anyone compared sound quality from reasonably priced $30 Edcor vs $110 Cinemag?

Erik777 or Scott Garnin may have tried both.
Click to expand...

rhing did a comparison a ways back in the thread post #6465
And decided the Cinemags are superior to the Edcors.
I can't say personally.
 
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#7,431
stanleyburbick said:
Your reply made me think. I expect this is old knowledge to you.. This is from SLVA079.....

"Quiescent, or ground current, is the difference between input and output currents. Low quiescent current is necessary to maximize the current efficiency.
Quiescent current consists of bias current (such as band-gap reference, sampling resistor, and error amplifier currents) and the gate drive current of the series pass element, which do not contribute to output power.
The value of quiescent current is mostly determined by the series pass element, topologies, ambient temperature, etc. For bipolar transistors, the quiescent current increases proportionally with the output current, because the series pass element is a current-driven device. In addition, in the dropout region the quiescent current can increase due to the additional parasitic current path between the emitter and the base of the bipolar transistor, which is caused by a lower base voltage than that of the output voltage.
For MOS transistors, the quiescent current has a near constant value with respect to the load current since the device is a voltage-driven device.
The only things that contribute to the quiescent current for MOS transistors are the biasing currents of band±gap, sampling resistor, and error amplifier.
In applications where power consumption is critical, or where small bias current is needed in comparison with the output current, an LDO voltage regulator using MOS transistors is essential."
Click to expand...

Well, it also depends on the modulation scheme used to drive the load. Having a low inductance speaker (i.e. tweeters or fullrange) connected to an Class-D amp without filter >can< increase the "quiscent current" (or system idle current) as the HF (high-frequency is undamped and generates heat in the speaker. Some 20-25uH in series helps to reduce this losses)

This is true for the modulation scheme used by MAX9708/9 (maybe/sure others from MAXIM as well).

Additionally i want to post an answer from a friend of mine regarding the question "if a fully reconstruction filter also "generates" additional idle loss":

nee, - jein ... normalerweise hast du (bei dicken mosfets) weniger Verluste, wenn die LC- Last , = Filter, dranhängt , weil die Umladung der mosfet-Kapazitäten durch die L-Last erfolgt und somit deutlich weniger Verluste in den mosfets entstehen;
aber ein gewisser Verlust ensteht natürlich im Filter, sprich hauptsächlich den Spulen;
somit: mit Filter weniger Verluste.....
ausser: die mosfets sind eher "klein" und schnell, dann gewinnt man nix durch die LC-Last, nur der Eigenverlust der Spulen bleibt - somit wird dann : weniger Verluste ohne Filter (wobei die Wirkung der Spule evtl schon durch die Eigen-Induktivität des speakers erreicht wird - dann bringt ein zusätzliches LC-Filter natürlich nur noch zusätzliche Verluste)
Click to expand...

Google Translate:

no, - depends ... normally you have (for thick/fat MOSFETs) less losses if the LC load = filter is used because the transhipment of MOSFET capacity by L-load occurs and thus significantly less losses in the MOSFET arise;
but some loss is of course in the filter, ie mainly the coils;
Thus: with filters less losses .....
except: the MOSFETs are rather "small" and quickly, then you win nothing by the LC load, only the internal loss of the coils remains - thus will be: fewer losses without a filter (the effect of the coil possibly already by the self-inductance the speakers is achieved - then brings an additional LC filter of course only additional losses)
Click to expand...

🙂
 
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#7,434
Puffin said:
Someone who shall remain nameless got me sucked into "yet another giant killer Class D amp" and all the madness that goes with it. I have spent all morning going in the wrong direction. You would think that I would have learnt my lesson with the "Sonic Impact" crowd around 2006 when I joined DIYA. Following that I got bitten by Gainclones and made several incarnations, C-Moy's, Pass Labs F2, B1, then a JLH 10w Class A and many other things in between.

I'm too old for all this now😀 I hung up my soldering iron long ago, but here I was wasting a whole morning when I could have been asleep or reading or daydreaming.

My own bootstraps are well and truly tied up and ready to take me out into the world. As for this amp, that's it. Input caps done, PS caps done, bootstrap tried and failed. It sounds good enough to me. Now....where am I going to use it?......Ahh yes that heavily laden shelf containing other languishing projects will just about take it......😀

Thanks to everyone who responded to my posts.

Rob.
Click to expand...

+1 ☺
 
#7,435
Gentlemen.. I'm intrigued by these TPA 3116d2 boards
Never thought I'd be reverting to playing/modding/scratch building with another D chip amp.
After memorable and prolonged adventures with Ta 2020 attempts.
But once 'hooked'😱

OK so now WHICH board to buy??
Cheap is good, but bad from the get go isn't.
thank you.
 
#7,436
Cheap and easy to mod is the thru hole YJ blue/black aka the Danzz board.

Best sounding board from what I hear is the Group Buy Wiener.

Best stock board is probably Sure from what I hear. I like the Ybdz Wiener for stock.

Best stock complete amp in a case is probably SMSL 36A pro (TPA3118D2 25 watts) $50 on Amazon.

best single mod: Panasonic SEPF 330uF 25V OSCON caps

next best mod: either upgrade boostrap caps to decent ceramics or add bootstrap snubbers

have fun.
 
#7,437
Great thanks! Likely the SMSL is the best buy. Cases are good 🙂
But as an inveterate 'fiddler', the bare board is likely gonna be it.
How to tell / find a Genuine YJ board ?
Can't see the YJ markings on the one I stumbled over
Funny that, as with Ta2020 boards, finding one with a Genuine Ta chip was close to impossible.
 
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