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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

TPA3116D2 Amp
TPA3116D2 Amp
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:58 PM   #10191
KTomi is offline KTomi
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Hi!

I would like to build a 3 or 4 channel amplifier with balanced inputs. I heard XH-M189 sound. It was very nice.
1Pc TPA3116D2 2x50W Dual-Channel Stereo Audio Digital Amplifier AMP Board | eBay

Can I do a modification for balanced inputs?
Can I make a connection for sync that amplifiers?
Are there any schematic for this board?

(Sorry for my terrible langauage )
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Old 3rd December 2017, 06:01 PM   #10192
dellama is offline dellama  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2014
This has become quite a popular thread!
I have seen the following:
TPA3116D2 120Wx2 Digital Bluetooth 4.0 Audio Receiver Amplifier Acrylic Case DIY | eBay
discussed herein and the reviews are fairly positive. Obviously, there are many versions of a 3116D2 implementation but as with most chip amps, smaller is usually better. With that in mind, has anyone experience with:
DC 12V 24V Mini TPA3116D2 2x 50W Digital Audio Power Amplifier Board Class D Amp | eBay ?

The lack of capacitance on the board would seem to make it bass deficient at first glance but if the caps cycle quickly, it may be able to deliver the current required. Thoughts?
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Old 4th December 2017, 08:15 PM   #10193
mkocev is offline mkocev  Bulgaria
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Hi all,

first, excuse me for my bad english
That's my first post here.
I have a blue-black TPA3116D board modded according most of the info in this topic.

I've made the following changes:

- DC Power Caps -330uf Panasonic "OSCON" caps.
- Input Signal DC De-coupling Caps - 1.0uF / 250V Wima MKP10
- Output Filter Inductors: Bourns 10uH toroid inductors
- completely remove one (maybe master) resistor. I found this info in some other topic.
- Snubber mod also is done according
- Output Filter Capacitors - TDK FK20X7R2E224K .22uf (I didn't remember what brand they were, also were changed with better ones)

I get the board from Ebay just to hear how sounds this chip.
My first impression was that it sounded terrible.

The height frequencies were very bad. The bass sounded somehow artificially and the mids were very colored.
Overall sound was somehow tense (maybe too much gain or fake chip, I don't know)

So I found the topic with mods and decide to try what will happen.

In fact there is overall sound improvement.
After modifications appeared more high frequencies, the bass become more real, a some scene appeared etc.
But still is hard to tell that the sound is good (by my opinion).

The bass is not too much even is slightly weak especially in the lowest region.
The solo drums and the mids sounds a little aggressive and the heights also are not very good.

The main problem is that it sounds a little colored and muddy. I don't know how to explain it better.

For example, when I tried to get more bass from Hifimediy T1-M with changing the input capacitors with bigger ones (i think 2.2uf vs original 1uf) the bass become more but the overall sound become "colored" with too much bass not lower, just too much. Especially noticeable in the vocals.
This is the closest example which I can give for the sound.

I've tried few laptop power supplies and cheap "low noise" switching power supply from ebay with step down module.
I tried different voltages (19, 21, 24) and maybe is truth that sounds best around 19V. Just sound more clear instead on 24v.

The Hifimediy feeds with the same power supply and the sound is much much better in comparison with the modded board.
Just sounds very nice, maybe a little bright but great

My plan was to use the TPA3116 to power a pair Overnight sensation speakers but.. if I can't find a way to make it sound better will look for other solution.

I get a cheap ebay 2.1 board with TPA3116 for a future project but it fails after test listening and there is no any sound now.
Seems it will sounded better in regard to the voices. I thing the sound was no muddy and colored in this way. Is hard to be sure because it was a very short listening. The seller promised that will send me a new board and still waiting
The 2.1 amp sounded a little "thicker" in comparison with TK2050 and LM1875 (for example) but I thing the sound wasn't "colored" as the sound from my modded board.

I don't know what is the reason, maybe the chip is fake...or something other..
My knowledge in schematics and the electronics are very basic so I don't know what to do or to try to improve the sound.

As I wrote I've tried different power supplies, with or without volume pot, I also tried to listen with preamp but the result was a little more bass, worse detail and more colored sound.

Here is the picture of the current configuration:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th December 2017, 07:55 PM   #10194
strongbow60 is offline strongbow60  Sweden
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Join Date: Jul 2017
TPA3116D2 Amp
Get a descent TPA3116 board, for example directly from Sanwu, TPA3116 50W*2 digital amplifier board PBTL 100W mono power amplifier
If it still doesn't sound good, give up on cheap boards and get a good TPA325x board or at least a Sure board. Se other threads in this forum. There is no way an ugly duckling will ever be a class D swan.
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Old 5th December 2017, 08:50 PM   #10195
dellama is offline dellama  United States
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strongbow60
The 325x family of chips are indeed a big step up but why should that kill the desire to make the earlier chip sing as well as it can
Have you had a look at the cheap board I linked earlier?
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:01 PM   #10196
SanjeevM is offline SanjeevM
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by strongbow60 View Post
Get a descent TPA3116 board, for example directly from Sanwu, TPA3116 50W*2 digital amplifier board PBTL 100W mono power amplifier
If it still doesn't sound good, give up on cheap boards and get a good TPA325x board or at least a Sure board. Se other threads in this forum. There is no way an ugly duckling will ever be a class D swan.
I have used 3116d2 and also tpa3251. The latter is far superior. Better still go for TI evaluation board for 3255.

There is no point in wasting efforts on 3116/8.
__________________
RPi 3/ Boss DAC 1.2/ TPA3251/ IFI Power 5V & Allo Adapter/ Paradigm Monitor 11 / Non-Electronics background
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:48 PM   #10197
FauxFrench is online now FauxFrench  France
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Comments to dellame question.

You show an Ebay TPA3116D2 mini board. I have a similar TPA3116D2 mini board with a slightly different layout. But, I haven't had time yet to implement and test it.

I believe that such mini boards, or basic-boards as they may be called, are made with the philosophy that we provide you with the chip and the minimum configuration components, produced cheap with robotized SMD technology, and you add whatever you prefer for the more costly parts (output filter, decoupling capacitors, heatsink etc.). Not a bad idea considering that I often replace more of the initial components anyway when I buy a complete amplifier board.

Almost all class D boards I buy (monolithic) are supplied with too little decoupling capacitance (expensive and bulky). Clearly the same apply for the basic-board you show. But, that is not a problem because you can add what is missing of decoupling capacitance just outside of the basic-board power terminals. The little decoupling you have on the basic-board is sufficient to ensure that the chip is not oscillating. The remaining (external) buffer capacitance will fill up your on-board decoupling in microseconds when the voltage starts to drop. So, the worry about sufficient decoupling to ensure good bass can be solved.

The basic-board has obviously got no output filter and you can design your own to be connected at the basic-board output terminals.

I cannot see for sure, but, small ceramic SMD capacitors are probably used for signal coupling at the input. They should be removed/shorted and replaced by foil capacitors located just outside of the basic-board input terminals. So far - so good.

Cooling - here may be a problem: Close to each end of the TPA3116D2 housing are some rather big chip capacitors located. These ceramic chip capacitors seem thicker (measured from the board surface) than the TPA3116D2 housing. Thus, it will be very difficult to mount a heatsink on the cooling pad of the TPA3116D2 housing because you will hit the ceramic capacitors before touching the TPA3116D2 cooling pad. Hence, cooling of this basic-board is a problem. Unless you intend to use the board for low voltage operation (up to 15V), you will need a heat-sink. The designer did not take that issue into account.

Using such methodology you can foresee what you can do with the board from just a photo.

The TPA3116D2 basic-board I bought allows for a heatsink to be mounted. Else, it is probably a very similar quality as the one you show.

Last edited by FauxFrench; 6th December 2017 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 7th December 2017, 10:03 PM   #10198
dellama is offline dellama  United States
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FauxFrench
Thanks for your attention. Some answers and some questions:
I'm assuming you were looking at the second board linked which is all SMD. The TPA3116D2 chip has the highest profile on the board so you can fit as large a heatsink on it as you like. An old CPU heatsink seems like a perfect match if I don't mount higher profile film caps on the same side. Will the larger foil capacitance with longer leads you suggest be better than the ones already there? It's hard to say at this point, I'll know more tomorrow after they're delivered.
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Old 7th December 2017, 11:22 PM   #10199
FauxFrench is online now FauxFrench  France
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Comments to dellama question.

Since my early days in electronics I have always been told to use foil capacitors in the signal path. This, because the foil capacitors are very linear, the ceramic X5R chip capacitors absolutely not, and X5R ceramics is highly piezo-electric and works like a microphone for mechanical vibrations. Therefore, I always try to replace the input coupling capacitors (often ceramic SMD types) with foil capacitors. As the ceramic chip capacitors are very small I normally remove them, make a short-circuit and arrange the foil capacitors at the input terminals.
Have fun tomorrow.
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Old 11th December 2017, 04:46 PM   #10200
dellama is offline dellama  United States
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FauxFrench
I thought you would be interested in my first impression of the 3116D2 amps I received that were mentioned above. As I suspected the chip is the highest profile part on the board so there is no possible obstruction for any sized heatsink from the board itself. I used two low ripple computer supplies in parallel to get 24V and lapped CPU heatsinks mounted tightly with zip ties to run the amp through its paces. The amp is noisy and very powerful. It drove my nearly catatonic 84dB speakers to respectable levels and didn't seem to run out of juice (4.2R impedance minimum). The heatsink did get pretty warm running just under clipping for 2hrs. but there was no sign of instability. With more efficient speakers, I suspect the noise would be intolerable. I think these amps are a very good bang for the buck $5 but they need help. In my next test, I will connect the speakers in parallel to see if the lack of supply capacitance is a problem. Does anyone else have these little amps?
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