Help the ijit find the hidden heatsinks!
Your objections are noted. On the positive side, I like to think I am learning something. And in the spirit of DIY, I think my objective is very reasonable: I am taking an inexpensive but fairly reliable amp that was designed to run in a noisy environment, probably a rack of warm gear, and instead use it in a home system where silence is wanted. Thus "no fan" becomes a "design criterion" if you will. I did a prototype on the NU3000 and it works (derated of course, reduced life expentacy possible, void warranty, etc.) The NU6000 clearly is a more challenging case. We now return you to our previous tinkering...
I found in this review
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
that:
"amp sections are based around the IRS20957S and there are four channels used in permanent bridge mode to give the two outputs."
"model. All the power devices are clamped to the base plate, which is acting as the heat sink. The fans just push air through the box to take away the heat build-up of the case and the components."
I googled "base plate" and I conclude it refers to the area of contact between the semiconductor and the heat sink. Or, is it the metal part of the PCB? I is confused.
Your objections are noted. On the positive side, I like to think I am learning something. And in the spirit of DIY, I think my objective is very reasonable: I am taking an inexpensive but fairly reliable amp that was designed to run in a noisy environment, probably a rack of warm gear, and instead use it in a home system where silence is wanted. Thus "no fan" becomes a "design criterion" if you will. I did a prototype on the NU3000 and it works (derated of course, reduced life expentacy possible, void warranty, etc.) The NU6000 clearly is a more challenging case. We now return you to our previous tinkering...
I found in this review
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
that:
"amp sections are based around the IRS20957S and there are four channels used in permanent bridge mode to give the two outputs."
"model. All the power devices are clamped to the base plate, which is acting as the heat sink. The fans just push air through the box to take away the heat build-up of the case and the components."
I googled "base plate" and I conclude it refers to the area of contact between the semiconductor and the heat sink. Or, is it the metal part of the PCB? I is confused.
Hi
I share others concern for both your amp and your safety, but in the spirit of trying to be helpful ...
I think you will find on this model that Behringer have clamped the output devices to the base of the chassis, this being the primary way that they are cooled. The fans then blow hot air liberated by the chassis (and other heat produced directly by the other electronics) out of the case.
BTW you cannot see output mosfets because they are under the PCB, but you can see the clips that press them to the chassis, these are the parts you noticed with the retaining screw.
With the lower power Inuke(s) I believe that the o/p devices are SMT parts, soldered directly to the top of the circuit board. In this case the heat is removed primarily by direct air flow from the fans, this is why Behringer provided a platic duct to increase the airflow over the output stage.
I share others concern for both your amp and your safety, but in the spirit of trying to be helpful ...
I think you will find on this model that Behringer have clamped the output devices to the base of the chassis, this being the primary way that they are cooled. The fans then blow hot air liberated by the chassis (and other heat produced directly by the other electronics) out of the case.
BTW you cannot see output mosfets because they are under the PCB, but you can see the clips that press them to the chassis, these are the parts you noticed with the retaining screw.
With the lower power Inuke(s) I believe that the o/p devices are SMT parts, soldered directly to the top of the circuit board. In this case the heat is removed primarily by direct air flow from the fans, this is why Behringer provided a platic duct to increase the airflow over the output stage.
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What you are doing gives DIY a bad name, quite frankly. There are many people here with backgrounds in electronics or other technical fields, including myself, and NONE of them would ever consider doing anything as absurd as what you are doing. Please allow me to quote wikipedia (LOL) to you:
.....and meriam-webster's encyclopedia:
Engineering - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
DIY is NOT an excuse to randomly destroy stuff when the knowledge to do it correctly is commonly available, and makes us all look bad.
The proper way to change the cooling system on an amplifier (or anything) is to measure the heat dissipated and temps involved, and then develop a new system that is "better" - quieter, cheaper, more efficient, etc, while still having the NEEDED head removal performance.
Bver100: thank you for a clarification. Your explanation sounds reasonable, and it likely means that I can't add more heat sinks on the NU6000 (but I will look anyway!)
Turbodawg: I never claimed to be an engineer. Even us sub-human tinkerers sometimes come up with a good idea like ... um ... IEDS? Here is an ancient joke (it was old thirty years ago when I saw it in the military
http://www.effectiveeng.com/Tire_Swing.gif
Turbodawg: I never claimed to be an engineer. Even us sub-human tinkerers sometimes come up with a good idea like ... um ... IEDS? Here is an ancient joke (it was old thirty years ago when I saw it in the military
http://www.effectiveeng.com/Tire_Swing.gif
Running an amplifier fanless probably isn't *that* dumb an idea, if you're using a few-KW PA amp at home listening levels. It might work. Obviously you're running risks.
Stuff will get hot - I suspect the output stage has thermal protection in these amps, but it's possible that the response time of it might not be fast enough to protect the output stage if you run the amp at high power. And other things could overheat - I'd be extra careful making sure the power supply is properly cooled, you don't want transformer/capacitor failures smoking out your house and in my experience that's how they fail.
If you have a bad failure and you're running with the lid off, the amp could set fire to other things. People/animals could shock themselves, and conductive things could fall into it and also cause a potential fire.
If you 100% know what you're doing and you understand the implications of what you're doing, by all means, go for it. Just do it competently and safely, instead of the "hmm, what happens if I do this?" modus operandi you're currently doing.
Stuff will get hot - I suspect the output stage has thermal protection in these amps, but it's possible that the response time of it might not be fast enough to protect the output stage if you run the amp at high power. And other things could overheat - I'd be extra careful making sure the power supply is properly cooled, you don't want transformer/capacitor failures smoking out your house and in my experience that's how they fail.
If you have a bad failure and you're running with the lid off, the amp could set fire to other things. People/animals could shock themselves, and conductive things could fall into it and also cause a potential fire.
If you 100% know what you're doing and you understand the implications of what you're doing, by all means, go for it. Just do it competently and safely, instead of the "hmm, what happens if I do this?" modus operandi you're currently doing.
Turbodawg you are right about nu6000 being an already bridged amplifier, but if the modules are of grounded bridge topology like in crown or FFA10000 amplifiers they can be bridged further.
But from the link in speaker plans, it doesn't look like that those amps have grounded bridged arrangement, rather a normal bridging. Hard to comment on how ULI is stating that it is 2X NU 6000....
But from the link in speaker plans, it doesn't look like that those amps have grounded bridged arrangement, rather a normal bridging. Hard to comment on how ULI is stating that it is 2X NU 6000....
Probably parallel bridged NU6000 (which is in itself bridged).
I wonder how much the supply puts out? The NU6000 would not do rated power with only one channel driven at 4Ω from what I have seen.
I see the 4-6000 is rated for 1.04KW/2Ω x4 (1.52KW peak), or 620W/4Ω x4 (.82KW peak), again, what can the supply do?
I wonder how much the supply puts out? The NU6000 would not do rated power with only one channel driven at 4Ω from what I have seen.
I see the 4-6000 is rated for 1.04KW/2Ω x4 (1.52KW peak), or 620W/4Ω x4 (.82KW peak), again, what can the supply do?
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I hope this amp doesn't become like the 21IPAL from B&C Speakers. Possibly not OEM but I feel like this wouldn't be available for non-businesses.
Cover your eyes TurboDawg!
Based on testing so far, Soldermizer Labs reports the Silent Death mod is recommended for the NU3000 more than the NU6000. Our lead tech remans mystified as to how the NU6000 doesn't overheat when the heat sink(s) are the bottom of the unit (under the PCBs), even though by design the fans blow air back to front. From appearances little to no air will blow under the PCBs. Meanwhile, initial "natural convection" tests show promise if the unit (without top) is kept at 90 degree angle. There were no protects when running at moderate output, unlike topless 0 degree level.
Based on testing so far, Soldermizer Labs reports the Silent Death mod is recommended for the NU3000 more than the NU6000. Our lead tech remans mystified as to how the NU6000 doesn't overheat when the heat sink(s) are the bottom of the unit (under the PCBs), even though by design the fans blow air back to front. From appearances little to no air will blow under the PCBs. Meanwhile, initial "natural convection" tests show promise if the unit (without top) is kept at 90 degree angle. There were no protects when running at moderate output, unlike topless 0 degree level.
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No doubt. But I haven't tested the actual RMS the NU6000 can put out fanless. I of course doubt it is 2200 w/ch RMS per the Behringer spec. However, it likely can put out the 3000 w/ch (peak) which is far more than I need.
There is a shopping challenge: for $400, can you show me a silent (fanless) commercially available stereo amp that will put out 200 w/channel RMS or 2000 (peak) into 4 ohms?
Not that I have found (excludes DIY or brand-x). An old favorite of me, and innovative in its day (at least according to the wonderfully written advertising!) The Carver M400 from 1980-1985 cost around $400. So amps (PA amps at least) have really come down in real money terms.
There is a shopping challenge: for $400, can you show me a silent (fanless) commercially available stereo amp that will put out 200 w/channel RMS or 2000 (peak) into 4 ohms?
Not that I have found (excludes DIY or brand-x). An old favorite of me, and innovative in its day (at least according to the wonderfully written advertising!) The Carver M400 from 1980-1985 cost around $400. So amps (PA amps at least) have really come down in real money terms.
Initial test: can put out 28 V (35 Hz) into ~ 4 ohm ~= 200 watts/channel. Now I am in the market for a replacement Bose driver
I thinking it has a temp sensor in it somewhere that shuts it down if it gets too hot. Maybe blow a hair dryer into it? Wait don't, with your luck it might melt.
Keep going - I'm fascinated.
Another paleo-conservative!
I tend to agree. At the very least we have read the same conservative books and/or web sites.* As long as Federal Reserve Notes are our money, we should use the term "constant dollars" or similar. As applied to my post, in very rough terms, I say that $400 in 1980 is worth today probably about $1200. So today's INuke NU6000 amp (if it can be said to be equal or better than a Carver M400(-a/t) of thirty years ago, is in real terms about 1/3 the cost.
*I don't know what will replace the current US government, but likely I will see you in the "camp" before then!
I tend to agree. At the very least we have read the same conservative books and/or web sites.* As long as Federal Reserve Notes are our money, we should use the term "constant dollars" or similar. As applied to my post, in very rough terms, I say that $400 in 1980 is worth today probably about $1200. So today's INuke NU6000 amp (if it can be said to be equal or better than a Carver M400(-a/t) of thirty years ago, is in real terms about 1/3 the cost.
*I don't know what will replace the current US government, but likely I will see you in the "camp" before then!
Anybody in the Tampa, FL area?
As I am too cheap/lazy to buy power resistors or whatever, I would like to make the following offer: if there is anyone around Tampa, FL who would like to test either or preferably both my fanless mods of the NU3000, NU6000, I will gladly loan them my amp for experimentation. I think this is a pretty safe offer because the only one who would do it lives in Ukraine or Sweden or wherever
As I am too cheap/lazy to buy power resistors or whatever, I would like to make the following offer: if there is anyone around Tampa, FL who would like to test either or preferably both my fanless mods of the NU3000, NU6000, I will gladly loan them my amp for experimentation. I think this is a pretty safe offer because the only one who would do it lives in Ukraine or Sweden or wherever
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