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Old 7th April 2013, 05:00 PM   #111
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iand View Post
<sigh> As has been pointed out many *many* times, the "power rating" on the back is the mains power consumption required to be put there by the US regulators, and is measured -- as they specify -- at a fraction of full power, 1/8 IIRC. It's nothing to do with the "rms" or "peak" power output of an amplifier.
The maximium ac power used/consumed is what the label refers to. Its how we know how many items can be put on the ac line without overloading it. For a power amp it is the ac power used at full rated output power. Note also that in USA, the VA or volts x amps is limited by wiring and circuit breaker to 120v x 15A (or 20A) = 1800W max from the wall before the circuit breaker trips... either on the equipment or the one feeding the equipment/amp from the home ac power entrance panel. 1800W continuous is the max that ANYthing can draw from the ac lines. So, obviously, 6000Watt (at 100% effeciency) isnt real Watts... its marketing Watts.

Thx-RNMarsh

Last edited by RNMarsh; 7th April 2013 at 05:04 PM.
 
Old 7th April 2013, 05:20 PM   #112
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
The maximium ac power used/consumed is what the label refers to. Its how we know how many items can be put on the ac line without overloading it. For a power amp it is the ac power used at full rated output power. Note also that in USA, the VA or volts x amps is limited by wiring and circuit breaker to 120v x 15A (or 20A) = 1800W max from the wall before the circuit breaker trips... either on the equipment or the one feeding the equipment/amp from the home ac power entrance panel. 1800W continuous is the max that ANYthing can draw from the ac lines. So, obviously, 6000Watt (at 100% effeciency) isnt real Watts... its marketing Watts.

Thx-RNMarsh
The power rating is for the reason you state (maximum number to be used on a circuit) but it's *not* at full rated amplifier power, it's at 1/8 power -- go and check ;-)

(which is why the NU3000 has a "mains power" rating of 350W, according to the back of the one sitting next to me)

The data sheet for the NU6000 says "2x3000W max, 2x 2200W rms". Tests have shown that it can keep this up for tens of seconds, by which time most speakers will have cooked -- and unless you're listening to sinewaves (why?) the power on music (even heavily compressed) won't even be this high.

If you want an amp to power an industrial shaker table with sinewaves for 24 hours don't buy one. If you want to play music through speakers they work just fine and do what they say in the spec.
 
Old 8th April 2013, 05:50 PM   #113
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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You are confusing the output power test methods with UL electrical test methods.
In order to size the fuse, circuit breaker and wire guage in a home, standards exist for them. UL also will test, if submitted, the max current draw of an amplifier for both safety - heat, voltage, material etc. Only the max amount of 60hz current drawn is needed to be known for sizing of loads/capacity of electrical circuits. However, with some amp topologies 1/3 power generates the most heat -- which is something UL wants to know about also and what happens at max heat generated as well.

Take a look at QSC Audio for a list of their models 60Hz ac current draw at various amplifier power levels..... full power is, of course, the output power that draws the most ac line current and thus something UL would be interested in knowing.

We are probably talking about the same thing.... but it just seemed confusing as I read it and I hope I have made it less confusing. (?)
PS _ have submitted my designs and products made by others to UL so I am pretty sure what they made me go thru.... and there are also standards on audio power ratings - see IEC - but few adhear to those. If everyone does not adhere to standards then you cant compare power ratings... its apples to oranges.

Thx-RNMarsh
 
Old 10th April 2013, 03:28 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
You are confusing the output power test methods with UL electrical test methods.
In order to size the fuse, circuit breaker and wire guage in a home, standards exist for them. UL also will test, if submitted, the max current draw of an amplifier for both safety - heat, voltage, material etc. Only the max amount of 60hz current drawn is needed to be known for sizing of loads/capacity of electrical circuits. However, with some amp topologies 1/3 power generates the most heat -- which is something UL wants to know about also and what happens at max heat generated as well.

Take a look at QSC Audio for a list of their models 60Hz ac current draw at various amplifier power levels..... full power is, of course, the output power that draws the most ac line current and thus something UL would be interested in knowing.

We are probably talking about the same thing.... but it just seemed confusing as I read it and I hope I have made it less confusing. (?)
PS _ have submitted my designs and products made by others to UL so I am pretty sure what they made me go thru.... and there are also standards on audio power ratings - see IEC - but few adhear to those. If everyone does not adhere to standards then you cant compare power ratings... its apples to oranges.

Thx-RNMarsh
The nu6000 has a power consumption rating of 620w based on 1/8th it's peak power draw of around 5000w, it's fused at 25a. I was running one off a ~2000w generator this weekend along with an adcom GFA-555, and was able to get the inuke's 4th light on.
 
Old 15th April 2013, 09:47 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
1800W continuous is the max that ANYthing can draw from the ac lines. So, obviously, 6000Watt (at 100% effeciency) isnt real Watts... its marketing Watts.
It's true only for continuous output, which is not important for audio use.

Program material that clips on 6000 W peak will have average power well below 1800 W, which can be exceeded for many sec before the breaker heats up enough to trip.
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Old 15th April 2013, 09:57 PM   #116
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
It's true only for continuous output, which is not important for audio use.

Program material that clips on 6000 W peak will have average power well below 1800 W, which can be exceeded for many sec before the breaker heats up enough to trip.
If the breaker is thermal it's probably got similar overcurrent capabilities to a UK mains fuse, which is typically >2x rated current for a minute or so -- you can quite happily draw 6kW out of a "3kW" mains socket here, pretty much forever if it's on a ring main which most are.

So it's very likely that the Behringer can dump over 2kW/4ohms continuously per channel into your speakers for this long; assuming your ears survive, it's unlikely your speakers will...

(there are some pro drivers which will cope, but few DIY audio people have them)
 
Old 15th April 2013, 10:07 PM   #117
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-- you can quite happily draw 6kW out of a "3kW" mains socket here, pretty much forever if it's on a ring main which most are.
If "ring" refers to the wiring layout, I can so how that could take double the rated current, but don't see how that applies to the fuse/breaker.
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Old 15th April 2013, 10:27 PM   #118
iand is offline iand  United Kingdom
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If "ring" refers to the wiring layout, I can so how that could take double the rated current, but don't see how that applies to the fuse/breaker.
Because all fuses/breakers are like that :-)

They have to be guaranteed to carry the rated current without tripping forever at maximum ambient temperatures allowing for unit-to-unit variations and aging. This means that typically they can carry double the rated current for a minute or so before tripping or blowing.

Their job isn't to limit the current to the rated value, it's to trip or blow when the current greatly exceeds the rated value due to gross overload or a short-circuit and stop your house burning down.
 
Old 9th August 2013, 07:01 AM   #119
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If nu6000 consume 80A in heavy loads, maybe 1 or 2 - 4.17 KVAR 10.4 Amps single phase PFC capacitors can help ? Can put them before amplifier?

Single Phase PFC Capacitor 4 17KVAR 400V 50Hz KNK5015 | eBay
 
Old 9th August 2013, 09:07 AM   #120
djk is offline djk
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What makes you think it's not power-factor corrected already?
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