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Old 3rd March 2013, 10:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by john dozier View Post
Not necessarily, but they do have commercial axes to grind.
I do? Believe me, I went into this with great enthusiasm and, like MF, pursued it to the point of asking for additional samples in the hope that the initial impressions were based on defective or early production samples. If there was any bias, it would have been in Anthem's favor as I have been quite happy with many of their other products.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 10:31 PM   #22
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There is nothing wrong with class D if class D that is what you want. Reliable and pretty much bullet proof.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 11:31 PM   #23
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I do not know a lot about Class D. I read the 6Moons Review for Hypex nCore and was intrigued. I have a Class D Yamaha Aventage RX-A710 and there was big improvement plugging an F5 into the preamp outs, bypassing the Yamaha amp section.

What is considered the current reference Class D DIY design? A lot of the discussion here is around commercial products - not much DIY.
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Old 4th March 2013, 12:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bnorrish View Post
I do not know a lot about Class D. I read the 6Moons Review for Hypex nCore and was intrigued. I have a Class D Yamaha Aventage RX-A710 and there was big improvement plugging an F5 into the preamp outs, bypassing the Yamaha amp section.

What is considered the current reference Class D DIY design? A lot of the discussion here is around commercial products - not much DIY.
What's wrong with class-D? Class D is very complicated and it has taken a very long time for good sounding amplifiers to evolve. The best are yet to come. I suppose the Hypex nCore would be considered a high powered reference amplifier. Most Class D amplifiers tend to be low powered. There has been lots of discussion lately of some of the newer Texas Instruments chips for being lower power reference quality. The TPA3110, TPA3100, and TPA3106 are popular chips that have been around awhile. The new TPA3116 and TPA3118 just may be state of the art and are just starting to get evaluated.
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Old 4th March 2013, 01:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ssportclay View Post
What's wrong with class-D? Class D is very complicated and it has taken a very long time for good sounding amplifiers to evolve. The best are yet to come. I suppose the Hypex nCore would be considered a high powered reference amplifier. Most Class D amplifiers tend to be low powered. There has been lots of discussion lately of some of the newer Texas Instruments chips for being lower power reference quality. The TPA3110, TPA3100, and TPA3106 are popular chips that have been around awhile. The new TPA3116 and TPA3118 just may be state of the art and are just starting to get evaluated.
Thank you. Not to sound dismissive myself but the spirit of this thread is the dismissive attitude many in the industry has towards Class D yet there is not a lot out there and "the best are yet to come". I would say much of the industry has already moved to Class D due to attractive marketing specs and not necessarily best audio quality. I am interested in the technology but seems to be a be bit speculative in that it has a lot of potential not yet realized. My fairly new Yamaha class D is not even close to my Class A F5. I would say Class D is more marketing friendly in terms high power numbers in a compact footprint. Class D is much more prevalent in consumer grade, big box electronics gear. An average consumer would be more likely to select a 100 watt per channel receiver over a 25 watt receiver, not knowing the differences. I certainly took the bait when I bought the Yamaha before I really got back into audio.

Is there a proven design that you can point to using TPA3110, TPA3100, and TPA3106 that you can point me to that will compete or beat with Class A/B or even A? I am not playing devils advocate, I am interested in building a proven design to hear for myself. A PCB for sale would be great.
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Old 4th March 2013, 01:14 PM   #26
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So far good sounding Class D amps are implement analog feedback so there is no way they can beat AB analog but Class D delivers excellent efficiency and compactness sacrificing big heat sinks (class D ICs perfect for cell phones, portable media players applications, larger Class D suits subs, consumer home cinemas etc.)

Regarding Class A amps delivers BW up to 250-500KHz while Class D switching frequency is in range of 250-500KHz.

The above statement means there is no way that Class D sounds close to Class A in terms of BW (transparency, fidelity).

Moreover good sounding HiEff speakers requires several watts to sing so I cannot see any practical benefit using AB or D or whatever amp over Class A because wasting few watts from receptacle is not an issue at all.
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Old 4th March 2013, 01:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bnorrish View Post
Thank you. Not to sound dismissive myself but the spirit of this thread is the dismissive attitude many in the industry has towards Class D yet there is not a lot out there and "the best are yet to come". I would say much of the industry has already moved to Class D due to attractive marketing specs and not necessarily best audio quality. I am interested in the technology but seems to be a be bit speculative in that it has a lot of potential not yet realized. My fairly new Yamaha class D is not even close to my Class A F5. I would say Class D is more marketing friendly in terms high power numbers in a compact footprint. Class D is much more prevalent in consumer grade, big box electronics gear. An average consumer would be more likely to select a 100 watt per channel receiver over a 25 watt receiver, not knowing the differences. I certainly took the bait when I bought the Yamaha before I really got back into audio.

Is there a proven design that you can point to using TPA3110, TPA3100, and TPA3106 that you can point me to that will compete or beat with Class A/B or even A? I am not playing devils advocate, I am interested in building a proven design to hear for myself. A PCB for sale would be great.
The TBI Millenia MG3 amplifier uses the Texas Instruments TPA3100 chip. Positive Feedback just rated this unit as best amplifier of the year. This is hardly something to be taken lightly and the newer TI chips are with little doubt even better.
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Old 4th March 2013, 02:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bnorrish View Post
Thank you. Not to sound dismissive myself but the spirit of this thread is the dismissive attitude many in the industry has towards Class D yet there is not a lot out there and "the best are yet to come". I would say much of the industry has already moved to Class D due to attractive marketing specs and not necessarily best audio quality. I am interested in the technology but seems to be a be bit speculative in that it has a lot of potential not yet realized. My fairly new Yamaha class D is not even close to my Class A F5. I would say Class D is more marketing friendly in terms high power numbers in a compact footprint. Class D is much more prevalent in consumer grade, big box electronics gear. An average consumer would be more likely to select a 100 watt per channel receiver over a 25 watt receiver, not knowing the differences. I certainly took the bait when I bought the Yamaha before I really got back into audio.

Is there a proven design that you can point to using TPA3110, TPA3100, and TPA3106 that you can point me to that will compete or beat with Class A/B or even A? I am not playing devils advocate, I am interested in building a proven design to hear for myself. A PCB for sale would be great.
The new TPA3116D2 can provide 25w/ch at less than 0.1% THD in a total package with all components the size of a credit card. Class A/B will have inherent zero crossing distortion which class D does not suffer from - it is essentially a powerful DAC using PWM technology, and to boot, it uses a single ended supply with zero-level output at Vcc/2. Let's look at the facts and real measurements - someone show me curves from a class A or AB that is superior to this chip. The 31xxD2 series has adjustable modulation freq from 400 kHz to 1.237 MHz selectable by jumper. You are not going to hear any modulation leaking through at these frequencies. Class A has the 'aura' of high end audiophile love, Class D is up and coming and has a battle to fight but I bet a double blind test may prove otherwise. For grins, someone should mount a tiny class D in a humongous aluminum chassis with fins and some resistive heaters added to generate the extra heat that the class D does not. People will connect their speakers, feel the heft, feel the heat, look at the great metalwork, and say this is a great class A amp.

Last edited by xrk971; 4th March 2013 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 4th March 2013, 02:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
The new TPA3116D2 can provide 25w/ch at less than 0.1% THD in a total package with all components the size of a credit card. Class A/B will have inherent zero crossing distortion which class D does not suffer from - it is essentially a powerful DAC using PWM technology, and to boot, it uses a single ended supply with zero-level output at Vcc/2. Let's look at the facts and real measurements - someone show me curves from a class A or AB that is superior to this chip. The 31xxD2 series has adjustable modulation freq from 400 kHz to 1.237 MHz selectable by jumper. You are not going to hear any modulation leaking through at these frequencies. Class A has the 'aura' of high end audiophile love, Class D is up and coming and has a battle to fight but I bet a double blind test may prove otherwise. For grins, someone should mount a tiny class D in a humongous aluminum chassis with fins and some resistive heaters added to generate the extra heat that the class D does not. People will connect their speakers, feel the heft, feel the heat, look at the great metalwork, and say this is a great class A amp.
And sell it for $18,000!

Cheers,
Rod
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Old 4th March 2013, 02:35 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
The new TPA3116D2 can provide 25w/ch at less than 0.1% THD in a total package with all components the size of a credit card. Class A/B will have inherent zero crossing distortion which class D does not suffer from - it is essentially a powerful DAC using PWM technology, and to boot, it uses a single ended supply with zero-level output at Vcc/2. Let's look at the facts and real measurements - someone show me curves from a class A or AB that is superior to this chip. The 31xxD2 series has adjustable modulation freq from 400 kHz to 1.237 MHz selectable by jumper. You are not going to hear any modulation leaking through at these frequencies. Class A has the 'aura' of high end audiophile love, Class D is up and coming and has a battle to fight but I bet a double blind test may prove otherwise. For grins, someone should mount a tiny class D in a humongous aluminum chassis with fins and some resistive heaters added to generate the extra heat that the class D does not. People will connect their speakers, feel the heft, feel the heat, look at the great metalwork, and say this is a great class A amp.
Have you built a TPA3116D2 amp? Where can one get a PCB? Is that what you use for your primary amp? If no, what do you use?
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