Hi folks.
Though I'm more into SE Tube amps, I have had lots of fun with the Gainclone, and since there seem fun to have with Class D as well, I thought that 50 bucks for this tiny amp (on Ebay) wasn't much.
It arrived today. Usually I use my 300B amp with Tannoy, but since I'm reworking it and as well building another tube amp, lately I just plugged an olf flea market Kenwood antique on a pair of .. flea market Klipsch KG4. Very pleasant. But back to the flea sized Indeed TA2021. Something is just .. "not right" All of a sudden, I'm in front of a 2 way set of speakers. Bass is articulated, but the treble seem uneven. Some shouting around 10khz I'd guess.
Is this amp supposed to mellow a bit with time?
Though I'm more into SE Tube amps, I have had lots of fun with the Gainclone, and since there seem fun to have with Class D as well, I thought that 50 bucks for this tiny amp (on Ebay) wasn't much.
It arrived today. Usually I use my 300B amp with Tannoy, but since I'm reworking it and as well building another tube amp, lately I just plugged an olf flea market Kenwood antique on a pair of .. flea market Klipsch KG4. Very pleasant. But back to the flea sized Indeed TA2021. Something is just .. "not right" All of a sudden, I'm in front of a 2 way set of speakers. Bass is articulated, but the treble seem uneven. Some shouting around 10khz I'd guess.
Is this amp supposed to mellow a bit with time?
cheap shot
I'm a piano tuner for decades, and have owned many "Stereophiled" reference systems before surrendering to tubes.. I love my Gainclone for what it is, a great musical little amp and I'm open minded (more than you it seems) enough to buy, try stuff that is different of what I'm used to (how about you?).
Yes, old Scott and Fishers with their too complex preamps are euphonic, but tubes have gone a long way since, and I haven't heard yet anything that comes close to the transparency, speed and openness of a Direct Coupled, Single-Ended amp. But even then, I'm not stupid enough to say that other types of amps are crap.
I'm a piano tuner for decades, and have owned many "Stereophiled" reference systems before surrendering to tubes.. I love my Gainclone for what it is, a great musical little amp and I'm open minded (more than you it seems) enough to buy, try stuff that is different of what I'm used to (how about you?).
Yes, old Scott and Fishers with their too complex preamps are euphonic, but tubes have gone a long way since, and I haven't heard yet anything that comes close to the transparency, speed and openness of a Direct Coupled, Single-Ended amp. But even then, I'm not stupid enough to say that other types of amps are crap.
my apologies
Sorry,
I misinterpreted your comment. My apologies.
I am sitting in front of my system right now, and I guess it is mellowing a bit. I'd say that the bass is just right. Tight and fast, deep when needed. Mids ok, not 3D though. And it's when it comes to treble that it's sometimes sounds.. harsh. Sibilants are over metalic a bit, as well the brushes on a drum sound like if it was a stainless steel drum..
All in all, I'd say it's a little impressive amp just the same when size and cost are taken into consideration. I'd just say that up to now it sounds "tight" very tight. Just the oposite of relax.
I'll use it alot this coming week, hoping it mellows a bit.
Gainclone is more airy while in control. More fun.
Thanks for your reply.
Sorry,
I misinterpreted your comment. My apologies.
I am sitting in front of my system right now, and I guess it is mellowing a bit. I'd say that the bass is just right. Tight and fast, deep when needed. Mids ok, not 3D though. And it's when it comes to treble that it's sometimes sounds.. harsh. Sibilants are over metalic a bit, as well the brushes on a drum sound like if it was a stainless steel drum..
All in all, I'd say it's a little impressive amp just the same when size and cost are taken into consideration. I'd just say that up to now it sounds "tight" very tight. Just the oposite of relax.
I'll use it alot this coming week, hoping it mellows a bit.
Gainclone is more airy while in control. More fun.
Thanks for your reply.
Breakin in period
Makes sense. I'll use mine alot and see if it improves. Can it be that the components used (caps etc) would be too "cheapo"? I find that it sounds quite.. electronic.
Makes sense. I'll use mine alot and see if it improves. Can it be that the components used (caps etc) would be too "cheapo"? I find that it sounds quite.. electronic.
Hi, have you tried hooking up your Tannoys to your new amp?Usually I use my 300B amp with Tannoy,
Shrill
Good idea..
No I haven't. Since tube amp needed overhaul and Tannoy deserved better cabinets, I took it all in my small workshop. This Indeed amp is so tiny, it should be easy to install it on the Tannoys, rather than getting the Tannoys back into the house. After trying, I'll plug the tuner on it, day and night for the complete week.
and see what happens.
What is your experience, guys, with these class D amps?
Good idea..
No I haven't. Since tube amp needed overhaul and Tannoy deserved better cabinets, I took it all in my small workshop. This Indeed amp is so tiny, it should be easy to install it on the Tannoys, rather than getting the Tannoys back into the house. After trying, I'll plug the tuner on it, day and night for the complete week.
and see what happens.What is your experience, guys, with these class D amps?
I do not have TA2021 but I have a TA2024 (original sonic impact) and a TK2050 from Sure electronics. Both times showed these amps needed some break-in time to sound smooth. I have my TK2050 connected to my Tannoys and the high was surely harsh and too much at the beginning. It started to become less harsh after about 10 hours of operation. I have also replaced the input caps to the MKT type and added a Zobel network at the output. Have also replaced the tank caps to NOS ROE Gold caps. The sound is more musical now.
I have two other class A amps to compare and I have to say the class D amps sound different and have a different taste.
I have two other class A amps to compare and I have to say the class D amps sound different and have a different taste.
I have had a pair of vintage Corner Yorks connected to a 2020A amp for the last several months, and for me, they sound great together.
I did mention this on the Tannoy group but it was not discussed, I believe a "best cabinet polish" got more attention.
I believe a "best cabinet polish" got more attention.
Yep.. those Tannoyists.. (and I'm a devoted one..) are weirdos, for sure. I still have my old IMF TLS-50 (just in case) and recently have cheated with Klipsch KG4 and was amazed at how good they can sound. They just don't have the same drama of the Tannoys. And I have lots of play toys to play with like Braun LV-1020, 630, Pierre Etienne Leon Junior, Sequerra Met-7 and well, I finally always use the Tannoys. Just too much fun with Tannoy + tubes.
But I suspect that yes, the caps in these little cheap amps are just that, cheap. After a breakin period, I'll see if things improve. For now, there's a lack of weight and presence to instruments, and that treble thing.
Thanks
Well. I plugged the "Indeed" amp TA2021 on the Tannoys for a week, and I must admit things did improve. There's nice imaging, strings sound natural, and the harshness seem to be gone.. but still, the treble is not quite natural, and the bass/mid-bass do lack some flesh to be convincing. All in all, it sounds nice, but quite a bit "hollow".
When I have time, I'll try replacing caps, and I imagine that a better power supply could help.
I also noticed the bass and mid-bass do lack some "muscles". However, the freq response is there and the amp will reproduce the lows, but just lacking some muscles.
I had my tripaths off for a while when I was building the JLH class A and modding my MF A1S. Afterwards, I switched back to the tripaths and I immediately noticed the bass issue. My theory is class A amps can deliver lots of current for bass immediately but the tripath can't in some ways. Even put big tank caps with the tripath but somehow the transient current for bass seems not quite there. I'm only a DIYer and mostly get things done by trial and error. I don't have the in-depth tech knowledge in digital amps/filter designs to support my theory.
Windex for Tripath
and see what happens.
Anyway, it makes a nice little amp for the bedroom, and for giving away to friends of mines who happen not to be interested in audio gear, but love music, while owning awful cheapo el-plastico LLoyd's like systems.. And since the flea markets are crowded with good cheap speakers, I'll have fun making friends happy.
Humm well.. I'll leave the tuner plugged on it for all Xmas and N-Year Holidays.. Ho Ho Ho!!
and see what happens.Anyway, it makes a nice little amp for the bedroom, and for giving away to friends of mines who happen not to be interested in audio gear, but love music, while owning awful cheapo el-plastico LLoyd's like systems.. And since the flea markets are crowded with good cheap speakers, I'll have fun making friends happy.
Muscles
Is this lack of muscles inherent to Class D? or because it's not a powerful enough model? And, has someone tried a beefed up power supply with it?
When it comes to Chip based amps, I find that the Gainclone is one of the best amp I came across. Easy on the ear while being detailed, powerful enough .. with muscles and refined. And cheap.
Is this lack of muscles inherent to Class D? or because it's not a powerful enough model? And, has someone tried a beefed up power supply with it?
When it comes to Chip based amps, I find that the Gainclone is one of the best amp I came across. Easy on the ear while being detailed, powerful enough .. with muscles and refined. And cheap.
I don't have enough tripath amps to conclude if this is an inheritance issue. But both my tripaths seem so. The ta2024 has a 12v 5a smps and I modded the input cap to 2.2 uf, the onboard tank cap to 1500uf and an 15000uf cap jumped to the tank cap. I don't believe the power supply is the problem. But I can't conclude since ta2024 is the least powerful in the tripath family. I also added an 15000uf to the sure board and tripled the size of the onboard tank caps. Contrary to me expectation, I don't see much improvement after these mods.
power supply
How about using a "real" power transfo, somthing beefy? or a car battery? ;-)
My old Norton motorcycle (circa 1969) is asleep for winter, and the battery is in my workshop.. hummm..
By the way, I'd be curious to give a try to more powerful TA chips.
How about using a "real" power transfo, somthing beefy? or a car battery? ;-)
My old Norton motorcycle (circa 1969) is asleep for winter, and the battery is in my workshop.. hummm..
By the way, I'd be curious to give a try to more powerful TA chips.