I am just finishing up my first amp mods. project- a sure 2024 board. Now I have 4 different inexpensive amp kits similar to the 2024 in the mail. As these are kits I will be building from scratch but would like to be able to make some modifications similar to the ones on the 2024.
I would like to buy a small inventory of caps that would be useful for the mods. Could some of you experienced and knowing folks provide with me a list of some of the caps most used for modifying these small amps.
Thanks!
I would like to buy a small inventory of caps that would be useful for the mods. Could some of you experienced and knowing folks provide with me a list of some of the caps most used for modifying these small amps.
Thanks!
What range of values are you looking for?
Check out this link, one of many:
http://www.alliedelec.com/kits/capacitor-kits/
Check out this link, one of many:
http://www.alliedelec.com/kits/capacitor-kits/
There has been a lot of very good articles already written on caps for T-amps on this site
Here is one called : Best t-amp capacitors?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/68762-best-t-amp-capacitors.html
Other searches will give even more advice
Here is one called : Best t-amp capacitors?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/68762-best-t-amp-capacitors.html
Other searches will give even more advice
Mid sized electrolytics:
1000uF, 2200uF, 4700uF Panasonic FR
Small electrolytics:
10uF, 47uF, 100uF Panasonic EB
Polyester:
100nF, 220nF, 470nF Wima or Epcos
All of the caps listed are cheap, and the electrolytics are rated for high temp and long life. This list covers 90% of the values I use for various amps.
Polypropylene caps are supposed to be great, but most of the time I can't get the value I need in a size that will fit. Also, being more expensive, I don't want to order a bunch to have on hand.
1000uF, 2200uF, 4700uF Panasonic FR
Small electrolytics:
10uF, 47uF, 100uF Panasonic EB
Polyester:
100nF, 220nF, 470nF Wima or Epcos
All of the caps listed are cheap, and the electrolytics are rated for high temp and long life. This list covers 90% of the values I use for various amps.
Polypropylene caps are supposed to be great, but most of the time I can't get the value I need in a size that will fit. Also, being more expensive, I don't want to order a bunch to have on hand.
Tripath Coupling Caps
I initiated the Tripath coupling cap thread. I agree with Redshft187 with the exception of his reference to polyester caps. Marsh and Jung did a paper quite a few years ago regarding the sonics of capacitors. Teflon, Polystyrene, Polypropylene, and Polycarbonate are the caps suggested for caps in the audio circuit. Some inexpensive polypropylene caps can be had at Radio Shack that sound very good.
Electrolytics should be reserved to power supplies, and the Panasonics are excellent for a moderate price. There are uses for other capacitor topologies put polyester and tantalum tend to be no-nos.
If you are trying to improve the sound of the amp, try the input (coupling) caps. You should be able to hear the difference when swapping these caps.
To get a little more performance the "tank" caps (which tend to be electrolytic) can have the number of micro-farads increased.
Make sure that the voltage ratings are either equal to or greater than the rating of the capacitor you are replacing.
Your query is rather broad. It would be easier to get a focused response if you narrow the breadth of your question. I know that may be hard if you don't know what you don't know.
My suggestion: start with the coupling caps.
I initiated the Tripath coupling cap thread. I agree with Redshft187 with the exception of his reference to polyester caps. Marsh and Jung did a paper quite a few years ago regarding the sonics of capacitors. Teflon, Polystyrene, Polypropylene, and Polycarbonate are the caps suggested for caps in the audio circuit. Some inexpensive polypropylene caps can be had at Radio Shack that sound very good.
Electrolytics should be reserved to power supplies, and the Panasonics are excellent for a moderate price. There are uses for other capacitor topologies put polyester and tantalum tend to be no-nos.
If you are trying to improve the sound of the amp, try the input (coupling) caps. You should be able to hear the difference when swapping these caps.
To get a little more performance the "tank" caps (which tend to be electrolytic) can have the number of micro-farads increased.
Make sure that the voltage ratings are either equal to or greater than the rating of the capacitor you are replacing.
Your query is rather broad. It would be easier to get a focused response if you narrow the breadth of your question. I know that may be hard if you don't know what you don't know.
My suggestion: start with the coupling caps.
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Thank you all for your suggestions. The amps I am going to be working on in the near future are:
1. Sure TPA3122 15W Stereo Amp
2. LJM P6 OP Preamplifier
3. LJM TDA7293 60W+60W Amplifier
4. XY TDA2030A Amplifier Amp
These are all inexpensive kits for fun and learning. This is a new retirement hobby for me. I like these little amp because I can build them into small hand made wooden cases which is half the fun.
Redshift- your list is most helpful. What are the appropriate V ratings best for these mods. I have been reading through a lot of the threads on amp mods but must admit I find it a little overwhelming with so many options.
Again- thanks for all your help
1. Sure TPA3122 15W Stereo Amp
2. LJM P6 OP Preamplifier
3. LJM TDA7293 60W+60W Amplifier
4. XY TDA2030A Amplifier Amp
These are all inexpensive kits for fun and learning. This is a new retirement hobby for me. I like these little amp because I can build them into small hand made wooden cases which is half the fun.
Redshift- your list is most helpful. What are the appropriate V ratings best for these mods. I have been reading through a lot of the threads on amp mods but must admit I find it a little overwhelming with so many options.
Again- thanks for all your help
Voltage Ratings
I agree whole heartedly agree that these amps are great for experimentation. Like you I enjoy the boxing of these units.
Redshift187's was trying to give you a ballpark range for various caps. The voltages should be printed on the caps. The voltage will vary depending on the design of the amplifier. I think it would be more prudent to decide which amplifier you are going to modify, then order the capacitors.
Coupling caps usually are rated at 200 volts or greater and for T-Amps they are from 1 to 4 micro-farads.
Consider Digi-Key, Allied Ellectronics, or Mouser Electronics as a source for caps. They can be ordered online or via the phone from these companies.
The more esoteric coupling caps can be ordered online.
I agree whole heartedly agree that these amps are great for experimentation. Like you I enjoy the boxing of these units.
Redshift187's was trying to give you a ballpark range for various caps. The voltages should be printed on the caps. The voltage will vary depending on the design of the amplifier. I think it would be more prudent to decide which amplifier you are going to modify, then order the capacitors.
Coupling caps usually are rated at 200 volts or greater and for T-Amps they are from 1 to 4 micro-farads.
Consider Digi-Key, Allied Ellectronics, or Mouser Electronics as a source for caps. They can be ordered online or via the phone from these companies.
The more esoteric coupling caps can be ordered online.
I just received the first of the amps I ordered; TDA2030A. My plan is to replace all the caps (4 @ 22uf 50v and 2 @ 2.2uf 50v) the two 0.1 K100 resistors and the cheep pot with an Alps 50k unit. Would it be best to simply replace the caps and resistors with ones of the same value, or how would I figure out what values would work best?
Here is a photo of the board from the supplier's web site:
Thanks again for all your help
Here is a photo of the board from the supplier's web site:
Thanks again for all your help
Attachments
TDA2030A Caps
I am out of my depth regarding caps for this unit. From what I can see of your photo and similar ones online, it looks as if all the caps may be electrolytic except two. From what I read there are also caps that control the Zobel network and those caps should not be arbitrarily swapped.
I performed a search for the TDA203A and the majority of the threads I saw were in the Chip Amps forum. There is a lot of information regarding this circuit available. I think you will get better information regarding swapping caps for this specific circuit in the Chip Amps forum.
I am out of my depth regarding caps for this unit. From what I can see of your photo and similar ones online, it looks as if all the caps may be electrolytic except two. From what I read there are also caps that control the Zobel network and those caps should not be arbitrarily swapped.
I performed a search for the TDA203A and the majority of the threads I saw were in the Chip Amps forum. There is a lot of information regarding this circuit available. I think you will get better information regarding swapping caps for this specific circuit in the Chip Amps forum.
Erm.. TDA's are not Tripaths . Of completely different Manufacture and format even.
Often Using the Component values as per the makers' Datasheet are an improvement in themselves Asian board makers often depart from the Suggested circuits.
Changing Caps. at least Input ones are largely dependent on YOUR system/setup and Your perceptions and the state of your personal hearing loss (being Retired
What works on a posted example may or may not please you.
Sometimes 1$ caps please more than the 50$ ones.. too true.
Often Using the Component values as per the makers' Datasheet are an improvement in themselves Asian board makers often depart from the Suggested circuits.
Changing Caps. at least Input ones are largely dependent on YOUR system/setup and Your perceptions and the state of your personal hearing loss (being Retired
What works on a posted example may or may not please you.
Sometimes 1$ caps please more than the 50$ ones.. too true.
I disagree on Panasonic EB series. 'long life' of an inferior capacitor is no bargain. In high stress applications the low ESR cap will have less internal heating - heat being the cause of 'lytic failures whether internally or externally applied. FRs, FM, FC in that order for through hole. Nichicon HZ for computer caps. Panasonic FP, FK for SMT
I buy caps for my employer and will not touch the low ESR caps. The reason I buy them is to replace other junk. If I didn't enjoy changing them the first time it's a good bet I won't like doing it again. Also my time is worth WAY more than the price difference.
G²
When in doubt, take the power supply voltage (double it if it's a dual polarity supply, + and -), then use the SECOND higher voltage capacitor available.
Eg, 12V supply, skip the 16V and use 25V. Gives you a good safety margin. You might need to go with only the first higher voltage if the power supply isn't *too* close to the value *and* you can't fit the higher voltage version.
Larger voltage capacitors are sometimes bigger, but usually have better ripple current capabilities and lower ESR, giving longer life.
Because I had a senior moment and meant to say I use only low ESR caps.
Apologies for that.
FC series goes down to 1uF and EBs down to 0.47uF. Since the tolerances on 'lytics is so broad it wouldn't bother me to simply change the value to 1 uF. My criterion is largest ripple current - inversely related to ESR but for the really small values it's kind of nonsense and would more likely use something other than 'lytics.
I have to tell you though that I'm a minimalist on capacitors in the signal path and will use a few as possible and a minimum of 'lytics in the signal path. People say one type of 'lytic sounds better than another and I don't dispute that but doesn't it stand to reason that a wire (no cap) will sound better than any cap?
Power supplies are a different issue and I will use filters and bypasses liberally.
G²
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Okay, I can agree with all that, and I certainly do everything in my power to avoid using electrolytics (and even capacitors in general) in the signal path as well. My first amp design was a DC coupled servo amp.
I just compared the ripple current of the EB with the FR for the 10uF/50V, and I'll never use the EB again. The FR are far superior than even the FC for ripple current. I guess I didn't notice the FC and FR went down that low in value (once you get up far enough in voltage).
Updated list
Electrolytics:
10uF, 47uF, 100uF, 1000uF, 2200uF, 4700uF Panasonic FR
Polyester:
100nF, 220nF, 470nF, 1uF Wima or Epcos
I just compared the ripple current of the EB with the FR for the 10uF/50V, and I'll never use the EB again. The FR are far superior than even the FC for ripple current. I guess I didn't notice the FC and FR went down that low in value (once you get up far enough in voltage).
Updated list
Electrolytics:
10uF, 47uF, 100uF, 1000uF, 2200uF, 4700uF Panasonic FR
Polyester:
100nF, 220nF, 470nF, 1uF Wima or Epcos
Prezden.
Before you get carried away changing all the caps.
Listen to each amp for a good few hours, and give them chance to run in.
Get aquainted with the sound of each amp, before you start work.
Otherwise you won't know if you've managed to improve anything.
Probably best to just concentrate on one at a time.
I can imagine things getting very confusing if you don't.
Before you get carried away changing all the caps.
Listen to each amp for a good few hours, and give them chance to run in.
Get aquainted with the sound of each amp, before you start work.
Otherwise you won't know if you've managed to improve anything.
Probably best to just concentrate on one at a time.
I can imagine things getting very confusing if you don't.
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