Italian marketing + class D marketing. Consider that the power ratings of half the pro-audio class D products on the market are deliberately inflated. Some brands are pushing the market in that direction.
It's very difficult to compete with them without joining the inflate-your-numbers trend, but I can say some are trying
It's very difficult to compete with them without joining the inflate-your-numbers trend, but I can say some are trying
hi Eva,
an interesting approach. I guess you're right. but If learn everything is simple.
of course did not come from space digam. but We the people always investigate unknown.
an example. I'm guessing the output layer is full bridge. But talking about 9000kw power how is mosfets Qc value of how low . What is the energy efficiency
an interesting approach. I guess you're right. but If learn everything is simple.
of course did not come from space digam. but We the people always investigate unknown.
an example. I'm guessing the output layer is full bridge. But talking about 9000kw power how is mosfets Qc value of how low . What is the energy efficiency
Last edited:
I used to design radio broadcast equipment for a living, and we hated the Italians.Italian marketing + class D marketing. Consider that the power ratings of half the pro-audio class D products on the market are deliberately inflated. Some brands are pushing the market in that direction.
It's very difficult to compete with them without joining the inflate-your-numbers trend, but I can say some are trying
They'd build utter garbage, and release spec sheets comparing their numbers to ours. Our FM exciter would do a 90dB SNR, they'd claim 100dB on theirs (despite no piece of test equipment in the world being able to measure that) and mark ours down as doing 80dB. We ordered one such unit through a third party, thinking we'd measure its real specs and release a "italians lie" white paper. Alas we couldn't, because the unit that we received was DOA.
I swear they're worse than the chinese. Sad to hear they're doing the same stuff with class D.
Powersoft use a switching power supply and a switching amplifier. What is not clear is if it has a tracking power supply. In a tracking supply the rail voltage raises and lowers to match the audio signal.
As to power ratings, it has become popular in pro gear to state peak power. Some give a time constant for this such as 30 mS. As the unit has at most a 20 amp input current even at 240 volts that would limit it to 2160 watts per channel at 90% efficiency. So the peak power is basically whatever the capacitors can store.
As to power ratings, it has become popular in pro gear to state peak power. Some give a time constant for this such as 30 mS. As the unit has at most a 20 amp input current even at 240 volts that would limit it to 2160 watts per channel at 90% efficiency. So the peak power is basically whatever the capacitors can store.
More or less the trend is to advertise the 1ms power that the engineers were expecting to obtain from the circuit, with everything cold and the theoretically maximum supply voltage and output current allowed by the parts used. It's more an indication of what could have been achieved in an ideal world than of what is actually achieved. Furthermore, some do it that way because advertising begins (in order to raise funds) before the product is ready for production, so the promised power figures can't be downgraded later without seriously hurting some egos. Damn capitalism, don't blame the engineers, bankers and politicians are the *real* experts in promoting corruption everywhere.
btw: All is SMPS and class D. Highest power single channel stuff is usually full bridge. Class AB, linear supplies and even tracking rails are now obsolete for high power audio amplification.
btw: All is SMPS and class D. Highest power single channel stuff is usually full bridge. Class AB, linear supplies and even tracking rails are now obsolete for high power audio amplification.
Last edited:
Just chiming in because I live in the same town where Powersoft operates ,Florence . And also because the so-called premier went in these days in China asking for money but they said :'Niet !'
I have nutting to say in this thread 'Cos I don't use class D as I don't need power ...but I believe everything YOU say !!
I have nutting to say in this thread
'Cos I don't use class D as I don't need power ...but I believe everything YOU say !!not just class D. I opened an italian car amp and took pics of what I saw. I was surprised to say the least.
back to topic, I would also say full bridge. If you use half bridge and dual supplies, the rail voltage would end up too high to be practical in very high power amps.
Sorry for off topic but I just couldn't leave it.
Capitalism works flawlessly, if apparently clients don't need precize and reliable power data, then you may learn something from that and tune the product to clients' needs.
If you don't learn a lesson, you end up with sub-opimal product from clients' point of view.
There's no other way, like it or hate it, or would you like to force customers to pay for the 'feature' they don't want?
On the other hand, if someone feels cheated by some specifications and can prove it, they can sue the manufacturer and win a lot of monay, it is the lack of enough of capitalism that prevents people from doing that more frequently.
That would cause the fear to cheat, as many Austrian School gurus state it: people generally are greedy and that can be good if enough 'fear feedback' is applied. If you remove the fear, the greed is here.
Capitalism works flawlessly, if apparently clients don't need precize and reliable power data, then you may learn something from that and tune the product to clients' needs.
If you don't learn a lesson, you end up with sub-opimal product from clients' point of view.
There's no other way, like it or hate it, or would you like to force customers to pay for the 'feature' they don't want?
On the other hand, if someone feels cheated by some specifications and can prove it, they can sue the manufacturer and win a lot of monay, it is the lack of enough of capitalism that prevents people from doing that more frequently.
That would cause the fear to cheat, as many Austrian School gurus state it: people generally are greedy and that can be good if enough 'fear feedback' is applied. If you remove the fear, the greed is here.
Last edited:
Even with a switching amplifier there is power dissipated when an output device is shutting off. If there is no dead time between the top going off and the bottom going on (or vice versa) there will be a surge of current when both are partially on. With a dead time between on and off there is still stored charge. So lowering the rails reduce energy wasted and more importantly heatsink requirements.
As there already is DSP driving the amplifier it costs less to modulate the power supply than to buy bigger heatsinks.
of course I could be wrong my info comes from the sales side.
Hi,
Some PA high power application, as i said in other thread, uses digital dt controlled by cpu. this system allow a very energy saved, becouse change (or switch at zero bias) in realtime,depeand level of input and current output.
some use this + special smps (without traditional big capacitance after AC rectifier). result can be for very high peak power output >7000w. even if declared for short time.
One important of this, is very small dissipation.
Regards
Some PA high power application, as i said in other thread, uses digital dt controlled by cpu. this system allow a very energy saved, becouse change (or switch at zero bias) in realtime,depeand level of input and current output.
some use this + special smps (without traditional big capacitance after AC rectifier). result can be for very high peak power output >7000w. even if declared for short time.
One important of this, is very small dissipation.
Regards
Hi,
used a couple of their amplifier modules für home subwoofer usage and am quite confident with them. They work reliable, are professionally manufactured and build compact. All modules I used came with powersupply, some with PFC.
They featured digital filter options either as push-in module or onboard.
It took me quite a long time searching for powerful class-D with all those features included. Since I use the amps for home appliances the question of the power specs are not that stringent as it would be for PA appliance.
Anyway, Powersoft publishes their specs and measurements and the measurement conditions and to which standards they comply.
There´s no obvious reason -at least for me- to mistrust that they offer good products.
jauu
Calvin
used a couple of their amplifier modules für home subwoofer usage and am quite confident with them. They work reliable, are professionally manufactured and build compact. All modules I used came with powersupply, some with PFC.
They featured digital filter options either as push-in module or onboard.
It took me quite a long time searching for powerful class-D with all those features included. Since I use the amps for home appliances the question of the power specs are not that stringent as it would be for PA appliance.
Anyway, Powersoft publishes their specs and measurements and the measurement conditions and to which standards they comply.
There´s no obvious reason -at least for me- to mistrust that they offer good products.
jauu
Calvin
gatabil!
Your sentences are pain to read. Learn syntax! Clean your vocabulary! And care about the right numbers! 9000kw??? No! 9 kW!
About your questions:
- Use google! http://www.musicainretecomo.com/Public/Formazione/Documenti/19.pdf
Here you can find the power stage efficiency, topology, and some other datas! (Note the "nominal power"!) The question still remains is how long maximal power can be sustained.
- Qc. What could it be? And why is it important?
- Is 9 kW a mistery? What about 40 kW? PKN Controls
Hi,
what is the minimum threshold (ie the duration of the pulse), the human ear perceives the power (spl)? new studies on the Man, new concepts applicable to the amp.
we have a quick perception of the change in environmental pressure, and a lot of hysteresis on the perception of thd, (if it is contained in the impulse). that's all.
regards
what is the minimum threshold (ie the duration of the pulse), the human ear perceives the power (spl)? new studies on the Man, new concepts applicable to the amp.
we have a quick perception of the change in environmental pressure, and a lot of hysteresis on the perception of thd, (if it is contained in the impulse). that's all.
regards
So, do I just need PKN amplifier, a sound card and a bit of space on the desk (2U rack size?) to create a 55 horsepower Variable Speed Drive, that would otherwise weight like 150kg and take a cubic meter or so? Come on...
Lemme give an example:
http://www.gamatronic.com/en-us/products/powerplus-ups/5
This is one REMARKABLE power density 10kW UPS (aka. 3x3.3kW class D online amplifier amplifying just 50Hz sine all the time).
Keep in mind it uses audio-range switching, no high power transformers (on-line, no isolation from mains), 3-level IGBT inverters and other efficiency tricks which could hardly be used in fullrange audio amp. Got anyone thinking?
Lemme give an example:
http://www.gamatronic.com/en-us/products/powerplus-ups/5
This is one REMARKABLE power density 10kW UPS (aka. 3x3.3kW class D online amplifier amplifying just 50Hz sine all the time).
Keep in mind it uses audio-range switching, no high power transformers (on-line, no isolation from mains), 3-level IGBT inverters and other efficiency tricks which could hardly be used in fullrange audio amp. Got anyone thinking?
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.