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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

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Old 23rd March 2012, 10:40 PM   #31
fakeout is offline fakeout  Canada
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Originally Posted by JoeDJ View Post
Assuming you are serious......... just don't accidently connect the the +& - which can happen when you connect the speaker wires either to the amp or the speakers. Just be careful and double check your connections before turninng on the amp. Even a stray strand of wire can short it
Oh OK, I think I assumed that right after I clicked to post the message. Well, I ordered speaker wire that's black and red underneath a white sleeve or whatever you call it. So, hopefully I won't make a mistake, haha (will be the first time I connect speakers).
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Old 24th March 2012, 02:58 AM   #32
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Default Problems with Topping TP-60

I got a TP-60 hoping that Topping would've solved all major issues for their top of the line product. The double transformer power supply sold me on it.

One of the input channels on my unit is completely dead (In2 Right). The other input pair is OK but my majn issue is that this amplifier picks up a lot of noise when connected to my computer. In my usual setup I have a computer sound card outputting to a mid-fi Marantz receiver. There's no noise through the receiver but when I switch the cables to the Topping there is significant noise.

My mp3 player (battery) plays clearly without noise. Usually the computer, a plasma TV and the receiver are all connected on the same power strip and I have no problems. When I tested the Topping I noticed that changes of the TV picture were affecting the noise profile heard through the speakers. I suspect this issue is due to a bad grounding design in the Topping but I don't know how to fix it. Maybe somebody can give an insight into what's going on.

I got this amp because I was curious to compare a respectable class D design to a mid-fi solid state. I like the sound of the Topping better - it's clearer and sounds more dynamic. The highs sounded a bit hot and I suspect the frequency response might not be flat but it's within acceptable limits. I didn't bother taking measurements but the issue is discussed on this blog.
January | 2011 | Audioheuristics

To conclude I liked class D but I need a more robust amp for my application. I'm afraid to build one from boards because I have no idea how to troubleshoot the type of issues like the one I encountered. The commercial offerings at teh moment seem to be great for mp3 players but not fool-proof for the typical noisy home setups of most people (unless mine is defective).
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Old 24th March 2012, 10:05 AM   #33
JoeDJ is offline JoeDJ  United States
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Yeah, I suspected that the TP-60 has some sort of bad design. I'm stiil wating to hear from PE on the matter.
Since it might not meet FCC regulations for RF inteference, it possible it's not even legal to sell it in the US. PE apears to be the sole US importer of the PT-60.

One reason the Toppings and other T amps sound cleaner is they are not prone to crossover distortion like transister amps are and this is why some compare their to sound to be somewhat like valve amps. T amps also seem to roll off a bit on the bottom so, this is also why they probably sound somewhat "bright" or more dynamic. A good sub can take care of this.

Last edited by JoeDJ; 24th March 2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 24th March 2012, 08:33 PM   #34
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BTW, will you let us know how you like when you get it?
Like I said, I may get one myself.

In the meantime, I'm using my Lepai 2020 and I do like the clean up front midrange

Some do not like the sound of the T2020 chip because they say it sounds "tinny" whatever that means.

I suspect some might be too fixated on bass.
Granted, they can benefit from a sub but beyond that.......
Back in the '70s, JBL's philosophy was that the midrange is the heart of the audio spectrum and they are right. Without a great midrange, what do you have? (I had a pair of the JBL L100s fed by a Heathkit AA-1640 amp)
Some have rediscovered this truth and they like the sound of the T2020 chip.

Anyway, my speakers are only 88db efficient and the Lepai 2020 gives adequate volume for me. I presently live in an apartment so I usually can't play my sys very loud most of the time anyway.
One of the beauties of the 2020 chips seems to be that they sound great even at lower volumes and there is no sweet volume spot as with some other amps.

So after careful adjustmets of my sys EQ that wound up basically "flat" and, my sub that has the Xover set at about 55 hz, the Lepai sounds pretty good.
I'm shure the Topping TP-20 would sound even better.
Ok I will post it but I don't know when since I have yet to buy speakers ^_^ (money issue) for now I will probably take the Wharfedale 9.1 .Moreover the only comparaison I can do is with my logitech Z506 so don't expect too much from me
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Old 9th April 2012, 04:01 AM   #35
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Default more Topping TP-60

I got a replacement for the Topping TP-60 with the dead channel. The new one still has a noise issue and I suspect there is a grounding problem with this design. It's a shame because I really like how it sounds but my setup is too noisy for it.

After playing with it for a day I got addicted to the class D sound. I searched craigslist and found a Pioneer Elite SC-05 for cheap. Pioneer used to use ICE Power modules but now builds their own which i think are based on that design. I did a quick comparison between the two and although they were similar I think I like the Tripath just a bit better. It's hard to describe but the Pioneer sounds very flat while the Topping somehow manages to sounds more dynamic. I don't think that the more involving sound of the Topping is due to a coloration.

The noise issue is only present when the Topping is plugged in the same outlet as my plasma TV. The Pioneer in the same setup is dead silent. If you are OK with the price and don't think you will have an issue with noise in your system go ahead and try out the Topping TP-60, the sound is really good. I can't really use it so I will be returning it and trying my luck with one of the much cheaper Tripaths.
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Old 9th April 2012, 05:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
I got a replacement for the Topping TP-60 with the dead channel. The new one still has a noise issue and I suspect there is a grounding problem with this design. It's a shame because I really like how it sounds but my setup is too noisy for it.

After playing with it for a day I got addicted to the class D sound. I searched craigslist and found a Pioneer Elite SC-05 for cheap. Pioneer used to use ICE Power modules but now builds their own which i think are based on that design. I did a quick comparison between the two and although they were similar I think I like the Tripath just a bit better. It's hard to describe but the Pioneer sounds very flat while the Topping somehow manages to sounds more dynamic. I don't think that the more involving sound of the Topping is due to a coloration.

The noise issue is only present when the Topping is plugged in the same outlet as my plasma TV. The Pioneer in the same setup is dead silent. If you are OK with the price and don't think you will have an issue with noise in your system go ahead and try out the Topping TP-60, the sound is really good. I can't really use it so I will be returning it and trying my luck with one of the much cheaper Tripaths.
Sorry to hear the Topping TP60 didn't work out. It sure sounds like a design problem as my PopPulse T150PRO units are working fine. How much output wattage are you looking for in a Tripath amp? I have the smaller Topping TP20 Mark2 and it sounds amazing. I purchased it for $80 through Amazon.
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Old 9th April 2012, 05:37 AM   #37
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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I actually ordered this one and I'm waiting for it to arrive.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

It looks very similar to other SMSL and Muse branded amps but it has nicer components. I am curious to see how it compares to the Topping TP-60. The small Tripaths are more of a side project for me and not really a priority.

I want to run active 4-way speakers with a DSP crossover. I was entertaining the idea of building an 8ch amplifier wthi class D modules but I'm not confident that I can figure out all aspects of it. Particularly challenging is implementing an 8ch volume control. Using the amplifier stage on a home theater receiver is very convenient because I can control the volume with a remote. Not a DIY solution but I prefer to focus on the speakers at this point and I will revisit the amplifier part at a later time.
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Old 9th April 2012, 06:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
I actually ordered this one and I'm waiting for it to arrive.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

It looks very similar to other SMSL and Muse branded amps but it has nicer components. I am curious to see how it compares to the Topping TP-60. The small Tripaths are more of a side project for me and not really a priority.

I want to run active 4-way speakers with a DSP crossover. I was entertaining the idea of building an 8ch amplifier wthi class D modules but I'm not confident that I can figure out all aspects of it. Particularly challenging is implementing an 8ch volume control. Using the amplifier stage on a home theater receiver is very convenient because I can control the volume with a remote. Not a DIY solution but I prefer to focus on the speakers at this point and I will revisit the amplifier part at a later time.
I am not familiar with the TA2021 chip but at 13wpc @ 8ohm it is very similar to the Topping TP20 Mark2 TA2020 amp. A comparison of spec sheets also confirms this. For best results, the first thing you should do is ditch the cheap wall wart ac adapter and use a DC regulated switching power supply. I have used a PHC RSP-512T power supply and the overall improvement of sound quality was pretty amazing. I have since opted to use a sealed lead acid battery and the sound quality is even better. The tripath chip level of performance will be dictated by the quality of dc voltage driving the amp.
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Old 9th April 2012, 04:49 PM   #39
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i have a ta2024 mkii board.. it plays with more bass than my denon avr 1911 receiver wich is 70 times more expansive.. it has moer bass and very good sound quality.. im playing the ta2024 on a couple of danish 3 way DALI 400 speakers .. it can play them to its limit.. i've also testet them on some cerwin vega with 12" bass, cant remember the name.. but it was the same experience as with the Dali 400's..
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Old 10th April 2012, 03:30 AM   #40
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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That tiny Tripath TA2021 by indeed-hifi is good but not as nice as the Topping TP-60 and the Pioneer SC-05 with class D. I hoped that it might match the great sound of the 5 times more expensive Topping (TA2022) but not. The tiny Indeed lives up to the expectations however and it is better than my entry level Marantz receiver (class AB).
I used it with a brick power supply from eBay(12V 5A) that was recommended on here for the small Tripaths. The best part however is that the indeed is dead silent and there's zero noise. does anyone know what in the Topping TP-60 implementation could be making it sound better aside from the individual torrodials?
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