UcD project, Subwoofer class d amp, full h-bridge, single supply +50 V - diyAudio
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Old 20th February 2012, 08:24 AM   #1
emilvv is offline emilvv  Bulgaria
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Default UcD project, Subwoofer class d amp, full h-bridge, single supply +50 V

Hello,

I am collecting information aboit UcD class d amp for subwoofer and need your help,
because it is a new area for me.

Here it is the requirements for the project:

1. It is UcD type class d amp.
2. uses full h-bridge - 2 x IR2110 + 4 x IRFB4227 + 2 x T200-2 as output filter.
3. Single supply +50 V !! ( transformer is allready in my hand !! )

I want to build my amp as PIC1.jpg .....

But found some similar schematics PIC2.jpg and PIC3.jpg ....with more components on it ..


So my questions are:

1. Is it a PIC1.jpg working amp ( if I build it with all components and proper PCB )
or just shematic for simulation in LT Space ?? With other words
- is it possible to make UcD amp only with LT1016 + 2 x IR2110 + 4 x IRFB4227 ?? Or I need
in additional 1/2 transistors and CD4030 as shown on PIC2 and PIC3 ??

2. Can I use LM311 instead of LT1016 for subwoofer UcD amp ??

3. Can I use IRF540N Instead of IRFB4227 for this amp for 200-300 W power and 8 ohm load ??
with IR2110 ??

When I clear my conception will publish shematics and PCB for your approval ...

Thank you in advanse for all of you, with helpful answers,

Emil
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PIC1.jpg (79.8 KB, 1473 views)
File Type: jpg PIC2.jpg (190.8 KB, 1374 views)
File Type: jpg PIC3.jpg (145.7 KB, 1318 views)
File Type: jpg PIC4.jpg (42.7 KB, 1279 views)
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Old 20th February 2012, 11:32 AM   #2
Pafi is offline Pafi  Hungary
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Vdd=50V is only less then 150W on 8 ohms.

PIC1 is only simulation, but very close to something usable, however the lack of overcurrent protection makes me not to like it.

T200-2 is gigantic, 1 peace is more than enough for 1 kW.

IRF540N is OK, but...

For single supply amp at this power level, Texas Instruments has excellent integrated solutions, with built-in overcurrent protection, etc...
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Old 20th February 2012, 11:47 AM   #3
emilvv is offline emilvv  Bulgaria
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Default Thank you !

Hello Pafi,

1. 150 W on 8 ohm with +50 V - OK. I need quality ... and 150 W i OK !!

2. ... What I have to add to PIC1.jpg ( from first post ) to make it a real project - all in RED from PIC5.jpg ??!! Is it GOOD or BAD to use examples from PIC2 and PIC3 for my design ?? If not good - what I have to add between LT1016 ( LM311 ) and IR2110 ....

3. T200-2 - I have them 'on stock' .... it is not a problem as usage and money

4. "IRF540N is OK, but..." - can I use it ??

Best Regards,

Emil
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Old 20th February 2012, 04:24 PM   #4
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Let me answer instead of Pafi, after you sent me a private to help.
1. Don't get upset but you like a beginnner. so if your supply is planned to be 50V, use the TAS5630, you won't get more power or better quality from 50V than that, without a much better understanding.

2. you need to add dead-time adjustment (van be done mith an RD network befora IR2110, or some other sofisticated way), you should add overcurrent protection, either using shunt resistors, FET Rdson sensing or whatever you want and can do.

3. T200-2 will be huge. If you have so much on stock, then I would make some business, and swap them for T106-2 ones.

4. For testing IRF540N, but if you "want quality" as you mentioned before, then get at least IRF540Z or some better.


For your earlier questions (which are quite trivial)
You can not use Lm311 insted of LT1016, beacuase it lacks complementary outputs.
For 50V you SHOULD NOT use 200V FETs unless you wnat lots of loss, use 100V fets or some more matching your bus voltage.

If you are a beginner, then don't stick to your bad decisions (mostly if others point it out to you, that they are bad), and don't stick to your stock. Do the simplest solution: TAS5630.
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Old 20th February 2012, 07:13 PM   #5
savu is offline savu  Romania
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I suggest the same as Loryalci.

Being that you are a novice in this field I should go with IC designs and later move on to non bridge designs like ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets

I do not make ovp and over current protections in my simulations because it takes more to simulate.

regards,
savu
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:46 AM   #6
DjLeco is offline DjLeco  Romania
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If you don't need more than 200 watts on 8 ohms, I recommend to use a simple AB class amplifier, supplied at +/- 60Vdc.

More quality on sound, against classD, and more easy to construct.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:53 AM   #7
emilvv is offline emilvv  Bulgaria
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Default Hello ..

Pafi, Lorylaci, Savu, DjLeco,

Thank you for your answers.

But let me to continue to ask you about my project...

TAS5630 with RL = 8 ?, 10% THD+N at 150 W is not my class d amp !

Also I don't want to use +/- XX Vdc or "ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets" or "simple AB class amplifier" ...

Kindly ask you to help me to build class d amp as I requested and not direct me to other ways, designs ..... etc .....

My new questions:

1. Is it possible to build UcD, full h-bridge amp, single supply +50V with THD+N less than 1 % ??

2. Is it PIC6 and PIC7 a good design for full h-bridge UcD amp ?? Is it optimal and with all necessary components ?? If not - can you send a good input stage schematics ( link to it .. ) for full h-bridge UcD amp .... as example !!!

3. Can you recommend me good mosfet transistors for +50V Ucd -
IRF540Z for 100V ??, IRFB4212 (100V) ??? or which one ???
Level shifting with half brige

4. Can I use one T200-2 with two windings in my design ?? I saw such usage in HIP4080 design .... ???

If you approve PIC6 and PIC7 as good and quality design .. I will draw the schematics in Kicad to see it better and to proceed further ...

Regards,

Emil
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File Type: jpg PIC6.jpg (79.8 KB, 661 views)
File Type: jpg PIC7.jpg (101.6 KB, 521 views)
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Old 21st February 2012, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilvv View Post
Pafi, Lorylaci, Savu, DjLeco,

Thank you for your answers.

But let me to continue to ask you about my project...

TAS5630 with RL = 8 ?, 10% THD+N at 150 W is not my class d amp !

Also I don't want to use +/- XX Vdc or "ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets" or "simple AB class amplifier" ...

Kindly ask you to help me to build class d amp as I requested and not direct me to other ways, designs ..... etc .....

My new questions:

1. Is it possible to build UcD, full h-bridge amp, single supply +50V with THD+N less than 1 % ??

2. Is it PIC6 and PIC7 a good design for full h-bridge UcD amp ?? Is it optimal and with all necessary components ?? If not - can you send a good input stage schematics ( link to it .. ) for full h-bridge UcD amp .... as example !!!

3. Can you recommend me good mosfet transistors for +50V Ucd -
IRF540Z for 100V ??, IRFB4212 (100V) ??? or which one ???
Level shifting with half brige

4. Can I use one T200-2 with two windings in my design ?? I saw such usage in HIP4080 design .... ???

If you approve PIC6 and PIC7 as good and quality design .. I will draw the schematics in Kicad to see it better and to proceed further ...

Regards,

Emil
1. From 50V supply you won't get more! (modulation error limits the output, so Class-D amp can usually get a bit less out form the same supply as ClasssB) Please use your mind a bit, and at least understand the answers of others, who are more experienced than you.

2. Both PIC 6 and PIC 7 has slow switching freqs, and if I am right no feedback. So it wont be "quality" (really wont be). Do a search for full-bridge single supply UcD, here is a good topic: Single supply bridge UcD, referencing the signals

3. I have reccomended one already: IRF540Z, it is quite good, cheap, easy to get. I cannot reccomend easily others, while it depeneds on you what you can get in your country / region.

4. Maybe you can, there is a post about that, read the comments. I have always used two spearate inductors, so I cannot give much more advices, maybe others can.

Don't get it wrong, but you seems like more and more demanding, without seeming to try to understand our answers. Please read some application notes, some literature about Class-D. Otherwise you will just stick the dog to the pole. (don't know the english for that sentence)

PIC6 and PIC7 are quite outdated and bad designs.
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:25 PM   #9
norazmi is offline norazmi  Malaysia
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Single supply is bad for demanding power even with class AB amp, do follow others suggestion, or ur trying to push 1 ohm load hard? u really need very good mosfet such as IRFB4710 etc...
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Old 2nd March 2012, 10:37 AM   #10
emilvv is offline emilvv  Bulgaria
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Default progress up to now ...

Hello All,

Please find attached latest schematic.

I need your remarks, corrections, suggestions ... etc. about everything EXCEPT power stage - IR2110+IRFP4227 - it is not ready and will be improved!

Please correct schematics, C and R values .... ...etc ...

Remember that this is only SUB amp - up to 200-300 Hz !!!!

Can you help men with correct values for : D5, D6, R7, R8, C6 and C7 ??

Regards,

Emil
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