Ok, so this topic has gotten to be over my head. I really don't know what any of you are talking about when you mention creepage and double insulation, etc. Some explanation would be appreciated. But to my original post, I'm just looking for a decent SMPS that can supply +-65v, 1000w, 8-9A...
So far I'm hearing that the contenders are: (2) Hypex SMPS400, ColdAmp SPS80HV (although its a little too tall), Connexelectronics A1000SMPS, and Digiamp SMPS1000 (although I'm not sure if I can obtain it in the US). Any others I should consider? Of those listed, any red flags (in simple terms)?
So far I'm hearing that the contenders are: (2) Hypex SMPS400, ColdAmp SPS80HV (although its a little too tall), Connexelectronics A1000SMPS, and Digiamp SMPS1000 (although I'm not sure if I can obtain it in the US). Any others I should consider? Of those listed, any red flags (in simple terms)?
Attached are screenshot with clearance distances measured on the current version. the version which you used for reference is early, version, not produced any more, but yet fully working. the capacitors used are the largest ones, 35mm footprint instead of 30mm which should be used on that particular version to meet the safety distance. The clearance distance between the transistor Drain plate and the mounting screw is also enough considering that there is a virtually airtight seal made by the insulator sheet, like Pafi mentioned in an earlier post. i believe that the manufacturers of the TO247 parts considered this aspect when they were developed.
I would not mind to test the power supply for safety by a third party organization which is not biased towards any competitor's product if looks that suspicious for any of you, and tell us the result.
I would not mind to test the power supply for safety by a third party organization which is not biased towards any competitor's product if looks that suspicious for any of you, and tell us the result.
Attachments
The SMPS400 AND SMPS1200 are both designed for CLass II isolating. We use in the SMPS1200 Kunze isolation material >0.4mm isolating thickness.
The SMPS400 is having a safety certification (done by TUV), customer can drop us an email and we send you a copy. We're in the process to get a safety approval for the SMPS1200 and SMPS3K as well. So far we've designed two other OEM projects, the safety approval was rather easy to get.
Hi,
which model of amplifier you will need the SMPS? (A-B / D)
where it is used the amp? (home.. SUB, PA, etc.)
Regards
The Audiopower DPS-500 would meet your requirements also.
A quote from the specifications:
"+/- 68V 10A (16A repetitive peak current)"
here is the data sheet:
http://www.audiopower.it/datasheet/DPS500-52_EN1-3.pdf
I have not used one but certainly looks like a good product. Can be adjusted to 65V.
A quote from the specifications:
"+/- 68V 10A (16A repetitive peak current)"
here is the data sheet:
http://www.audiopower.it/datasheet/DPS500-52_EN1-3.pdf
I have not used one but certainly looks like a good product. Can be adjusted to 65V.
Hi,
Just for correction, I put the pdf correctly (new release).
you can use the DPS-500-S-64V in this case.
If you mean + /-68v with a 50Hz toroidal, then with these models is correct + /-64V. (700w under load burst, the drop voltage is about 2.7 V). ...just for percussion & symphony.
Regards
Just for correction, I put the pdf correctly (new release).
you can use the DPS-500-S-64V in this case.
If you mean + /-68v with a 50Hz toroidal, then with these models is correct + /-64V. (700w under load burst, the drop voltage is about 2.7 V). ...just for percussion & symphony.
Regards
Hi,
Thanks for your time, I sent you an email regarding the translation of the article but this is not a translation error, it is simply deleted "NOT". thanks anyway.
now is correct.
Regards
Well, so I recreived simply a strange version, which has oversized caps.
The discussion about the sealed creepage on the MosFets is something I personally can follow by my personal horse sense. The opinion of certification institutes you will probably only find out, when you really present it there and I see you are confident about acceptance.
Lost warranty on my hypex
I thought it would be just fair to be as critical with hypex as with connex and partially disassembled my unit.
First picture shows the area of the input rectifier.
There is an ugly isolation sleeve that which isolates the screw vs. the caps.
Ugly, but when measuring I found a creepage over the surface of >6mm.
and a thickness of the sleeve of 0.4mm-0.5mm.
The input rectifier itself has a washer of 0.5mm thickness and the plastic package of the rectifier is fully isolated. Wow, somebody did not trust on the thickness of the plastic package and added the washer.
Also the insulation bags of the Mosfets measure approx 0.5mm thickness.
Perfect fit to Jan Peter's info.
Sorry Johnson for chasing your thread into details.
Finally there are multiple possibilities available and it is up to you to judge.
P.S.
Don't have a cold smps on hand, otherwise I could show the same for that construction.
Edit: 'Same' does not mean any information about the result, but same action of disassembling and measuring.
I thought it would be just fair to be as critical with hypex as with connex and partially disassembled my unit.
First picture shows the area of the input rectifier.
There is an ugly isolation sleeve that which isolates the screw vs. the caps.
Ugly, but when measuring I found a creepage over the surface of >6mm.
and a thickness of the sleeve of 0.4mm-0.5mm.
The input rectifier itself has a washer of 0.5mm thickness and the plastic package of the rectifier is fully isolated. Wow, somebody did not trust on the thickness of the plastic package and added the washer.
Also the insulation bags of the Mosfets measure approx 0.5mm thickness.
Perfect fit to Jan Peter's info.
Sorry Johnson for chasing your thread into details.
Finally there are multiple possibilities available and it is up to you to judge.
P.S.
Don't have a cold smps on hand, otherwise I could show the same for that construction.
Edit: 'Same' does not mean any information about the result, but same action of disassembling and measuring.
Attachments
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Please note, my vote and pictures were for the hypex smps1200 (not 400).
But these smps are designed for double instantanous power, it is likely that the 400W version will do the job in your case.
Trying some simple explanations on creepages, clearances, basic insulation, double insulation, protection class I, protection class II:
Creepage:
Distance between to isolated parts, measured along the surface of the isolator.
Clearance:
Distance between to isolated parts. Measured not on a surface, but shortest way through the air.
Protection class I:
All conductive touchable parts of the device have a low impedance connection to protective earth.
In this case the isolation between these touchable parts and high voltage areas needs to fulfill basic insulation, requires moderate creepages, moderate clearances and no requirement on isolation thickness.
High pot test voltage for 300V operating voltage: 2kV
Protection class II:
Conductive touchable parts can be floating.
In this case the isolation between these touchable parts and high voltage areas needs to fulfill double/reinforced insulation, requires huge creepages, huge clearances and at least 0.4mm isolation thickness for single layer insulations.
High pot test voltage for 300V operating voltage: 4kV
Detailed descriptions, figures and lots of further mandatory safety requirements you will find the approx. 180 pages of the EN60065
UL standards are not identical at all, but use a lot of similar vocabulary.
Unfortunately even safety standards are not available for free.
IMHO standards with almost the character of a law must be free.
The high price of EN60065 really made angry, when I bought it.
Is that per SDS-258 or will that feed both with one SMPS?
BTW, thanks for the definitions, I know what you mean about "purchasing" UL spec's.
So my question to the definitions is, why is creepage and clearance important? what happens if those dimensions not maintained?
Thanks for all the knowledge!
When talking about the 400W-type, I intended that you could use one for one SDS258.
Why creepages and clearances?
Electrical currents can 'creep' accross surfaces.
It also depends on the material and degree of pollution and humidity how easy this might happen.
Also Electricity can 'jump' ==> arcing. How easy it can jump also depends on humidity and air pressure.
The values in the standards bring down the likelihood that we get zapped close to zero. If those dimensions are not maintained the likelihood of being zapped will grow.
Imagine you are standing in front of an power outlet where somebody has removed the plastic cover: How close do you want to put your fingers to the life metal contacts?
...of course we could now bring up the philosophic question whether people who do risky jobs, sports & hobbies, would agree to accept less creepage and less clearance, because the overall risk assessment of their life style indicates heavy imbalance of risk in the non electrical areas...
But since I broke my back I stopped motorbiking and suddenly even properly isolated power outlets became the most dangerous part in my life.
Why creepages and clearances?
Electrical currents can 'creep' accross surfaces.
It also depends on the material and degree of pollution and humidity how easy this might happen.
Also Electricity can 'jump' ==> arcing. How easy it can jump also depends on humidity and air pressure.
The values in the standards bring down the likelihood that we get zapped close to zero. If those dimensions are not maintained the likelihood of being zapped will grow.
Imagine you are standing in front of an power outlet where somebody has removed the plastic cover: How close do you want to put your fingers to the life metal contacts?
...of course we could now bring up the philosophic question whether people who do risky jobs, sports & hobbies, would agree to accept less creepage and less clearance, because the overall risk assessment of their life style indicates heavy imbalance of risk in the non electrical areas...
But since I broke my back I stopped motorbiking and suddenly even properly isolated power outlets became the most dangerous part in my life.
I do not want to be cruel but I would like to add ..
A DIY is free to experiment and build long as they remain within the private testing. (even if it is stupid to risk his life)
But can not market a product out of the minimum standards required to ensure safety, (in Italy it is criminal), in China maybe is good .. I think
Everyone wants to build SMPS low prices .. thanks to a ton of savings in equipment, special tests (all required especially on the transformer) and component certifications.
I think that when a customer chooses a product, should not look only at the price.
A DIY is free to experiment and build long as they remain within the private testing. (even if it is stupid to risk his life)
But can not market a product out of the minimum standards required to ensure safety, (in Italy it is criminal), in China maybe is good .. I think
Everyone wants to build SMPS low prices .. thanks to a ton of savings in equipment, special tests (all required especially on the transformer) and component certifications.
I think that when a customer chooses a product, should not look only at the price.
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FYI
creapage and clearance info can be found on this site...
The Evaluation of Spacings in Electronic Product Design
The standards are pretty much applicable all over the world, whether they are policed is a different matter.
Personaly I use the same standards for any DIY PCB stuff I do as I do when I am doing a 'proffesional' (ie one I'm getting paid for) PCB... spent 8 years doing PCB's for generator set controllers so we had to be on the ball with our creepage and clearance, as we sold to the whole world. I like UL because they do test and give you feed back.
I am of the opinion that if you are going to do this sort of thing as a hobby then because of the dangers you should work to the same regulations as everybody else.
creapage and clearance info can be found on this site...
The Evaluation of Spacings in Electronic Product Design
The standards are pretty much applicable all over the world, whether they are policed is a different matter.
Personaly I use the same standards for any DIY PCB stuff I do as I do when I am doing a 'proffesional' (ie one I'm getting paid for) PCB... spent 8 years doing PCB's for generator set controllers so we had to be on the ball with our creepage and clearance, as we sold to the whole world. I like UL because they do test and give you feed back.
I am of the opinion that if you are going to do this sort of thing as a hobby then because of the dangers you should work to the same regulations as everybody else.
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