@Juhleren.
I think ChrisPa was referring to the "error" signal, that is the difference between two different signals (input and output in our case). it's a common practice to assess quality in the pro world, AFAIK.
if that's so, headphones would be useful as even with entry level ones vs high-end loudspeaker systems, they put the loudspeakers to shame, detail-wise (because of room acoustics influence? because of a single truly full-range driver being used?). and if it's an error signal you're listening to, it would be pointless to try to listen for the same qualities as in regular listening (sound stage, transparency etc) because it will sound very different from the actual music. and you can use a realistic load for the amp when testing, it can be a simulated one.
again, just speculating from the available data.
I think ChrisPa was referring to the "error" signal, that is the difference between two different signals (input and output in our case). it's a common practice to assess quality in the pro world, AFAIK.
if that's so, headphones would be useful as even with entry level ones vs high-end loudspeaker systems, they put the loudspeakers to shame, detail-wise (because of room acoustics influence? because of a single truly full-range driver being used?). and if it's an error signal you're listening to, it would be pointless to try to listen for the same qualities as in regular listening (sound stage, transparency etc) because it will sound very different from the actual music. and you can use a realistic load for the amp when testing, it can be a simulated one.
again, just speculating from the available data.
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Maybe Bruno will reply, but if i were using this as a testing regime i would listen to both the difference signal and the the two (before and after) audio signals.
And obviously the output signal would be into a proper loudspeaker load(s). There's absolutely no point trying make observations purely into a headphone load - i think that goes without saying.
And obviously the output signal would be into a proper loudspeaker load(s). There's absolutely no point trying make observations purely into a headphone load - i think that goes without saying.
I don´t recall Bruno mentioning listening to an error signal. (maybe I missed it)
I believe that he made the mentioned assessments based on listening to signal -probably music... I guess that switching between amps´ outputs and source´s output must have been his base of comparison when has stated that no audible difference is detectable between some of his amps including the ncore´s.
Including a load introduces yet another distorting element. If this has been done, I believe that no difference has been audible. -but not because of the amps....
Why not just stick´em into a few decent loudspeaker system and listen to music for comparison -which also is their actual purpose?
We must take into account that some forms of distortion and non-linearity is often perceived as pleasant...
As of now I'm a member in the NC400 Club. For the time beeing I put them (as mononlocks) in neat boxes made of acrylic glass, which I had in place occaisionally. Don't know if this will last. First because the boxes are about ten years old which shows (originally needed for external xovers), second because I'm not an artist in building amps (which shows even), third because I like big and heavy cases.
I strongly believe that nobody of my HiFi friends will take these amps for serious, if they see them in these cases. But I believe they will change their mind once they listen to them.
Although I have not time enough for serious listening right now, what I hear from the first songs played to check the amps is really promising.
I am/was very happy with my old ARC Classic 120. Since I have to buy new tubes for 700€ every second year and need someone to trim the bias then, which costs another 200€, I was thinking about something more "modern". Originally I was thinking about buying the ARC Reference 210 for ten times the amount i have sent to the Netherlands for the NCores.
Although the Ref 210 need even new tubes every 2.000h ( and that is for me two years), at least they have an auto-bias, which enables me to change the tubes by myself.
So, why then NCores? Originally I was affected by the announcement of Paul McGowan, owner of PS Audio, that he is planning to build new amps using the NCores. I own both the PWT and the PWD MKII, and I really like the approach of PSA. While we discussed Paul's idea in the PSA forum it showed, that Paul can't buy the NC400 due to the DIY policy of Hypex. While searching the net for information, I found this very helpful thread.
Although I like to read about amps, I like listening to amps even more. That's why I decided to give them a try. So far I believe this was the right move, but I will give them more serious listening I the coming weeks. Unfortunately I have to go on a business trip next week, so it will be something around end of January until I will have more experience with these amps. Maybe by then i will buy new cases to let them look more adult....
Thank you for the information I got from this thread. I will share my findings here. Later I will also take some pictures to show you what I build today.
I strongly believe that nobody of my HiFi friends will take these amps for serious, if they see them in these cases. But I believe they will change their mind once they listen to them.
Although I have not time enough for serious listening right now, what I hear from the first songs played to check the amps is really promising.
I am/was very happy with my old ARC Classic 120. Since I have to buy new tubes for 700€ every second year and need someone to trim the bias then, which costs another 200€, I was thinking about something more "modern". Originally I was thinking about buying the ARC Reference 210 for ten times the amount i have sent to the Netherlands for the NCores.
Although the Ref 210 need even new tubes every 2.000h ( and that is for me two years), at least they have an auto-bias, which enables me to change the tubes by myself.
So, why then NCores? Originally I was affected by the announcement of Paul McGowan, owner of PS Audio, that he is planning to build new amps using the NCores. I own both the PWT and the PWD MKII, and I really like the approach of PSA. While we discussed Paul's idea in the PSA forum it showed, that Paul can't buy the NC400 due to the DIY policy of Hypex. While searching the net for information, I found this very helpful thread.
Although I like to read about amps, I like listening to amps even more. That's why I decided to give them a try. So far I believe this was the right move, but I will give them more serious listening I the coming weeks. Unfortunately I have to go on a business trip next week, so it will be something around end of January until I will have more experience with these amps. Maybe by then i will buy new cases to let them look more adult....
Thank you for the information I got from this thread. I will share my findings here. Later I will also take some pictures to show you what I build today.
As promised here are some pictures of my NC400´s in their acrylic housing. These cases were originally build for an xover. That´s why some holes are not properly drilled for the actual use. But it was the best way for me to bring my NCores to life and use them until I get the aluminium cases to build real big mono blocks. I think the NCores deserve that additional investment.
And, yes, the stands suit for my ARC Monos. They are a bit oversized for the actual cases. Waiting for the new cases...
And, yes, the stands suit for my ARC Monos. They are a bit oversized for the actual cases. Waiting for the new cases...
Attachments
Hello,
I get my new NCore and SMPS600 on thuesday. I am very happy with the sound.
As I need to lower the gain with my 100dB speakers, I removed R141 this morning.
One of the NC400 has now a problem
When it powers on, the red leds light on as expected and then I have a big "ploc" on the speaker, and another one a few seconds after (I unplugged the power to avoid damage on my speaker ...).
I tried it on my test speakers and it was the same ... the boomer moved a lot a very short time...
The other NC400 works as expected, with lower gain.
I dont know what to do...
I have sent an email to hypex support, I hope to get an answer next week.
I get my new NCore and SMPS600 on thuesday. I am very happy with the sound.
As I need to lower the gain with my 100dB speakers, I removed R141 this morning.
One of the NC400 has now a problem
When it powers on, the red leds light on as expected and then I have a big "ploc" on the speaker, and another one a few seconds after (I unplugged the power to avoid damage on my speaker ...).
I tried it on my test speakers and it was the same ... the boomer moved a lot a very short time...
The other NC400 works as expected, with lower gain.
I dont know what to do...
I have sent an email to hypex support, I hope to get an answer next week.
Hello,
I get my new NCore and SMPS600 on thuesday. I am very happy with the sound.
As I need to lower the gain with my 100dB speakers, I removed R141 this morning.
One of the NC400 has now a problem
When it powers on, the red leds light on as expected and then I have a big "ploc" on the speaker, and another one a few seconds after (I unplugged the power to avoid damage on my speaker ...).
I tried it on my test speakers and it was the same ... the boomer moved a lot a very short time...
I would look for a solder bridge between two pads near R141, or perhaps a stray solder ball someplace else. This kind of work definitely wants a magnifying glass or magnifying goggles (which you need on general principles anyhow).
Hi Regnad - now I am confused
Do you mean to say that the NC400 with 6" speaker wire outperforms the NC1200 with the longer speaker wire?
I thought you were indicating in an earlier post that the NC1200 sounded better even when using longer speaker wire?
Appreciate if you could clarify - thanks!
thank you for your help.
I was thinking the same, but the toothbrush wash did not help.
One of the "pad" of R141 came with the resistor. I dont know if that can be the problem.
I will bring the ncore at work tomorrow, we have all the magnifiing glass we could dream of ...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yes, that is a serious problem. Your nc400 is probably toast, as the pad has probably taken some of the inner layer connections with it.
I had the same thing happen to one of my 8 nCores as a result of rushing the desoldering job...
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