That is the point, thanks a lot for your consoling answer.
Any benefit in paralleling little caps instead of big one ?
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maybe but I don't think so.
one thing I'm almost certain about is that one needs serious speakers to hear these differences. I'm doubtful about their relevance with mediocre ones.
regarding highs I'm more than happy with the highs I hear on my system and there's no way I'd want them smoother, it's already on the smooth side.
just found this on audiocircle, it's about linear vs switching:
I had early interest when Hypex started and was on the fence about purchasing until the upgraded UCD400HG became available. I bought 4 modules and built 2 stereo amps with very good linear power supplies (for bi-amping my OB line source speakers). Was very pleased with the performance. Did some tweaking with the input capacitors and output filter network with minor improvements. Decided to go all out and built battery power supplies for them at +/- 48VDC. They were sooo quiet with great soundstage depth. Some members may have heard them in my exhibit room three years back at RMAF. After a couple years the batteries started to become a bit of a pain so I went back to linear supplies. In an effort for further improvements, I removed the input capacitors completely and had a nice improvement. That is how I have been listening the past couple years.
Enter the NC400. I dropped them in my system to drive my OB panels from 200Hz up. While the supplied power cords looked nice, I used my own designs because I know their sound making it easier to hear overall changes in the sound of the system. Tonally they sound almost identical to my UCD400HGs (which means, very neutral). They are very quiet (as advertised) with an extremely good soundstage. The big question for me is are they better than mine since I use a good linear supply vs. their switching supply. The answer is yes. In the midrange it was close, but I felt the NCs had a better sense of space with improvements in very low level detail retrieval. Maybe a 5% improvement. The high frequencies were an easier call with the NCs being much cleaner and musical. A good 15% improvement over the UCDHGs. I did not test the bass performance. So, yes they are better and yes, they are worth purchasing. How will these babies sound with a really great linear power supply?
Chris H.
Hypex NCore NC400 - USA Tour Listening Impressions
but mind that the guy is a manufacturer.
to make other people's job easier, maybe it'd be a good thing to remind them that there is a (ongoing?) listening tour impression thread at audiocircle. user jwtrace built a NCORE-based amp (with Hypex SMPS) and sent it on a tour around US. users send their feedback there. very nice initiative.
Hypex NCore NC400 - USA Tour Listening Impressions
I use 625VA 2x45V transformer so the current is near 7A. Further 4x MUR1620 diodes in the rectifier. 6 x 10000uf/80V capacitors. Buffersupply is standard lm317/337 circuit with 250mA transformer.
Some weekends ago we did compare the ncore to a ucd400hg setup at a meeting with about 20 people. Most of the people heard very small differences.
But a lot of the people could not tell witch they like most. Most people said that day that they would not spent the extra money for the ncore modules because of the very small differences.
Has anyone actually done a proper ABX of a nc400 with a linear supply vs. a SMPS600?
I could not hear any difference with my dynaudio audience 52 Se speakers.
On a set of magnapan 3.7 speakers i like the linear powersupply above the smps. But the difference is very, very small. I think that it is important what speakers you use.
So it is as always with audio you must first listen on your own setup. When i look at price/performance ratio then the smps is the better choice.
On a set of magnapan 3.7 speakers i like the linear powersupply above the smps. But the difference is very, very small. I think that it is important what speakers you use.
So it is as always with audio you must first listen on your own setup. When i look at price/performance ratio then the smps is the better choice.
for what it's worth...
I have owned those speakers and I'd recommend them any day for the price, especially that they're out of production and can be bought for bargain prices.
but they're not the most revealing out there WRT amplifiers, differences that are more than obvious on the current ones (Dynaudio Confidence 3) were masked by the Audiences. the Confidences use the Esotar tweeter and it's incomparable to the one used in the A52s. while it sounds somehow polite it's at the same time revealing. I think you know what I mean, not that in your face presentation but rather "yeah, I can do it if you want me to". I can wax lyrical too, you know LOL
I've compared the UCDs with other amps on the current speakers. there are differences but rather subtle (sublte is a vague and subjective term, be reminded, many others would readily pay 10k for that kind of subtle). I wouldn't be surprised if differences of the kind linear vs SMPS or UCD vs NCORE seemed slight or even completely masked on A52s.
all this needs to be taken in the context that the acoustic of my listening room is not exactly ideal.
A quote from audiochews:
Quick update to this thread. The other week I heard an Art Audio Quintet power amp in place of the nCore's in my system. To my surprise the Art Audio (valve amp) which outputs 30w or so really drove my speakers in a way I've not yet achieved with the nCore's. In comparison the nCore's sounded less punchy and not as enjoyable. Given all the praise that the nCore's continue to receive on various fora I can't help feeling I've got something fundamentally wrong with my build. Surely with 200w on tap and 24a peak current output the nCore's should be capable of greater slam than a 30w valve amp?
This is what i heard also on my setup. I like the sound of my fu13 2 x 20watt tube amp much more then any class D amp. Visitors at my home always ask a demonstration of the difference between the hypex amps and my tube amps and mostly they like the Fu13 as best.
Quick update to this thread. The other week I heard an Art Audio Quintet power amp in place of the nCore's in my system. To my surprise the Art Audio (valve amp) which outputs 30w or so really drove my speakers in a way I've not yet achieved with the nCore's. In comparison the nCore's sounded less punchy and not as enjoyable. Given all the praise that the nCore's continue to receive on various fora I can't help feeling I've got something fundamentally wrong with my build. Surely with 200w on tap and 24a peak current output the nCore's should be capable of greater slam than a 30w valve amp?
This is what i heard also on my setup. I like the sound of my fu13 2 x 20watt tube amp much more then any class D amp. Visitors at my home always ask a demonstration of the difference between the hypex amps and my tube amps and mostly they like the Fu13 as best.
mr push pull,
I have a nice collection of speakers and amps. I do not know what the perfect sound is. I do know what i like. And i think every body has its own prefferences.
The ncores are the best amps of hypex. And if you like them that is perfect. I compare hypex amps in all the settings as possible now for several years and i like to share my own experiences. People must deceide for them selves what to use.
I have a nice collection of speakers and amps. I do not know what the perfect sound is. I do know what i like. And i think every body has its own prefferences.
The ncores are the best amps of hypex. And if you like them that is perfect. I compare hypex amps in all the settings as possible now for several years and i like to share my own experiences. People must deceide for them selves what to use.
I'm not one bit surprised.
like someone once put it, audio is "chasing the euphonic". there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, I do it too. but it's important to remember that maybe some other person's speakers (or other component) do the "punchiness" thing very well so that he/she doesn't have to look for an amp capable of that. the Audio Research (valves) guy from audiocircle switched from AR to NCORE.
if you're looking for corroboration, read the Genesis amp review I posted above. the ending lines confirm your impression about punchiness.
what I noticed with my UCD vs a very large class A amp (sorry, I really can't remember the brand) is that the former seemed to lack some bass. and IMO bass does have a lot to do with punchiness. btw, the comparison was done on A52s too but on another room with better acoustics. I couldn't detect any major differences. I'm sure that on better speakers there could have been other obvious differences.
please forgive me if my above posts seem off-topic, irrelevant, silly or useless.
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you have no reason to be defensive, I wasn't contradicting you in any way. please read my posts again and you'll see it.
but I stand by my impressions regarding the revealing capabilities of the A52s. it is a crucial point, IMO.
if you're willing to accept that I simply take no side (class D, linear, SMPS or not, Hypex or not etc) you'll see that I'm doing by best to tell things as close to how they are.
Or it can be the opposite ?
I run a very punchy and dynamic set of speakers, high efficiency (Two ways, big circular wooden spherical waves horns from 1000hz). It reveals the slightest detail like a loop and any default from previous stages can be highlighted in a very disagreeable and obvious way.
Despite this, i'm always in quest form more speed and dynamic from amps, and can't afford (on my personal taste) slow and comfortable tube amps on it.
Boring like a Ferrari driven by a limousine driver.
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It may not have anything to do with current, but how a valve amp reacts to impedance spikes at the woofer's fs and tuning frequencies. How are your woofers tuned, over or underdamped?
That is my experience as well, the bass is much better on the NC400 compared to UcD400HG. In fact I think the bass is where the difference between the two is greatest!
True.dat
Glad to know me and my mates are not alone in this.
Tests where conducted in two different systems; one with ATC SCM-40s and the other with Jamo Reference 909 loudspeakers. 2-3 listeners max in each case. More is considered a crowd and not appropriate for critical listening.
And what would that be? I think you will have a hard time finding any purely technical "matching" problems with any of the two amps, since they are both having extremely low output impedance and the same frequency response.
I wonder too. I mean, for the basses, there is not to fear about any problem of speed. So, if the THD & IM is the same, and the damping factor too, all depend on the power supply, i believe...
Not to forget than, often we can find an improvement somewhere, when it is elsewhere. I mean, increasing the slew rate of an analog amp give often the feeling of "faster" basses, while it is in the treble that there is less distortion/harshness.
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