But what if you got one of them super duper Ultra Tweeters that operate in the GHz band?
Golden Sound
(scroll down to Ultra Tweeters)
Golden Sound
(scroll down to Ultra Tweeters)
But high frequency content in Hires material can introduce some "nice" side effects in IM distortion......
In this link more on this and why hires as a container format "sucks"
24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed
In this link more on this and why hires as a container format "sucks"
24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed
nCore build tech ?
Hi folks, I have a build question. If one were going to build an nCore stereo amplifier in a non-metallic case would the following be the correct way to arrange the various grounds:
create a single ground point within the case, and then route the following to it:
1. The ground standoff on the SMPS600s
2. Pin 1 from both XLRs
3. Nampon, via a switch for standby mode
4. Shield connection on the input harness to the nCore modules
AC ground will not be connected.
Hi folks, I have a build question. If one were going to build an nCore stereo amplifier in a non-metallic case would the following be the correct way to arrange the various grounds:
create a single ground point within the case, and then route the following to it:
1. The ground standoff on the SMPS600s
2. Pin 1 from both XLRs
3. Nampon, via a switch for standby mode
4. Shield connection on the input harness to the nCore modules
AC ground will not be connected.
But what if you got one of them super duper Ultra Tweeters that operate in the GHz band?
Golden Sound
(scroll down to Ultra Tweeters)
Interesting product StigErik.
But what is your point?
They don´t mention harmonics in the above 100kHz band but a wave-propagation-effect caused by HF carrier frequencies. Belive it or not, but this is a well known acoustic effect
To the "above 22kHz cannot matter" argument. I get that it can be difficult to understand that super sonics can have an audible effect. Exactly why it has is still debated. Had you ever tested cables with inductances and capacitances that "should only" have affects in the super audio register, my guess is that you would see things differently. It DOES sound different no matter the known limits of human hearing and source material. Equipment probably adds harmonics of their own, though not as desirable.
Why? -most likely because these super audio effects have some effect down in the audible register. Theoretically you can argue against, but that would be to define the phenomenon according the some theory picked out of the blue instead of asking why this is audible.
Rest in peace with it
Wouldn't you want to connect everything to physical earth (PE) ground at some point? Otherwise, you have a floating ground situation with no path to PE should the hot side of the AC short internally. I know it's not likely, but that's what PE is for - the unlikely. What about the PSU having some sort of catastrophic failure without the internal fuse (if there's one) breaking?
Well...
It is my preference to follow Class 2 construction standards, and not connect the AC ground. Hypex also recommends this approach in the nC400 literature. The SMPS600 is protected from catastorphic failure by a fuse. And I will be sure that the wiring is secure. Additionally, with a non-metallic enclosure, there is much less risk of shorts if a wire did fail somehow.
There are quite a few commercial high end audio companies, using metal enclosures even, who do not connect the AC ground at all.
In any case this is my choice... and I fully understand the potential risks. Remember, I am talking about a non-conductive enclosure here.
No answers to my question?
Wouldn't you want to connect everything to physical earth (PE) ground at some point? Otherwise, you have a floating ground situation with no path to PE should the hot side of the AC short internally. I know it's not likely, but that's what PE is for - the unlikely. What about the PSU having some sort of catastrophic failure without the internal fuse (if there's one) breaking?
It is my preference to follow Class 2 construction standards, and not connect the AC ground. Hypex also recommends this approach in the nC400 literature. The SMPS600 is protected from catastorphic failure by a fuse. And I will be sure that the wiring is secure. Additionally, with a non-metallic enclosure, there is much less risk of shorts if a wire did fail somehow.
There are quite a few commercial high end audio companies, using metal enclosures even, who do not connect the AC ground at all.
In any case this is my choice... and I fully understand the potential risks. Remember, I am talking about a non-conductive enclosure here.
No answers to my question?
While you are all discussing about higher harmonics above 20 KHz I'm enjoying my NCore's.
Now listing to the War Of The World SACD in multi-channel....
Yesterday a former colleague, who is also an audio enthusiast, came to listen to the NCore's and my XTZ Speakers. He was very impressed by the detailed bass of my setup.
We agreed that in the near future I'll take two of my NCore's to his house and do a comparison with his Moon Titan multi-channel amplifier. (Class D meets Class A)
The speakers will be TAF Royal Exalibur Mark II with EBS. Link Terrazzo Art Fidelity - products
Now listing to the War Of The World SACD in multi-channel....
Yesterday a former colleague, who is also an audio enthusiast, came to listen to the NCore's and my XTZ Speakers. He was very impressed by the detailed bass of my setup.
We agreed that in the near future I'll take two of my NCore's to his house and do a comparison with his Moon Titan multi-channel amplifier. (Class D meets Class A)
The speakers will be TAF Royal Exalibur Mark II with EBS. Link Terrazzo Art Fidelity - products
Based on the hypex notes your proposal looks right
No mains earth in a class 2 as recommended by hypex/Bruno
Does it necessarily need any signal above human hearing from the source to work? There are other ways to introduce ultra frequency content.
You probably misunderstand the function of the product entirely.
Basic audio physics knowhow would tell you that ultrasonics influence the directivity of lower frequency signals. If you actually read the product info at all, you would probably have found out this yourself, but why bugger, nothing above 20kHz can possibly influence anything of interest, right?
Again, this is a case of applying the wrong "physical model", or "theoretical framing" to the phenomenon and then stating that it therefore cannot possible work and thus must be bogus.
Enjoy the crusade of misinterpret and wrongly applied "theory"
cheers
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That is of course on the premise that there is one to begin with
Sorry, but how is your crusade helpful to people who are using, or want to use hypex ncore modules?
I know, I know... "Don't feed the trolls"...
Ultrasonic is the word used to define "sound above the upper limit of human hearing".
I guess you might be able smell it, or feel it, but we are an audiocentric community (Clue's in the community title) so we can dismiss it.
Juhleren, I have some invisible trousers that would suit you very nicely sir!
I guess you might be able smell it, or feel it, but we are an audiocentric community (Clue's in the community title) so we can dismiss it.
Juhleren, I have some invisible trousers that would suit you very nicely sir!
Julf, you don´t have to excuse.
You are right that my "crusade" is not meant for people in general that are using or consider to use ncore, and therefore does not help them. Hypex ncore is a splendid product and I have no intention to claim otherwise.
What on the other hand tricked me (again -and sorry for that), is the way many practice a tendency of misinterpreting and misapplying theoretical knowledge to disregard what they don´t understand. This is what tricks me, and if your point is that i wont reach them anyway, then you are probably right, so rest with it. I will.
best,
Juhleren, I understand where you are coming from - and yes, I do see what you were saying about the ultrasonics not being directly audible, but perhaps influencing the sound. It's just that many of us believe in the good old principle of "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Thus claims that go beyond normal everyday physics do require solid proof to be accepted - that's just how science and engineering works. It is OK to say "well, it's not quite that simple", but that has to be followed up by a good, solid and proven model and explanation for why not. Just saying "there is more to it than we know" is not enough.
Anyway, this has very little to do with ncores, so let's get back on track...
While I agree with disagreeing with Juhleren
, I think you are doing it on somewhat flippant terms - reality is always slightly more complex. Wikipedia: Sound from ultrasound
Now, I agree that has nothing to do with ncores or the argument at hand, but it does show that being overly simplistic is not necessarily helpful.
While I agree with disagreeing with Juhleren
Wikipedia: Sound from ultrasound
Now, I agree that has nothing to do with ncores or the argument at hand, but it does show that being overly simplistic is not necessarily helpful.
Julf
I am aware that it is both possible to generate ultrasonic waves and that there are transducers that ar capable of reproducing them. In lab conditions, with the equipment in use, we might even experience it in some way. However, the audio recording process is bandlimited in every scenario I can think of. In the old days the speed that you could pass the tape over the recording head, the size and density of the magnetic particles and the physical gap in the tape head itself were the limiting factor. In modern digital systems the sample rate sets the limit and those are all engineered to a known basic standard which is the upper limit of human hearing. There is no recognised requirement in any of this engineering design to reproduce ultrasonic components, so not only is there little margin in the professional systems to record above the limit of audibility, there is often a strong requirement to filter out ulstrasonic spurriae to limit energy dissipation and stabilise eletronic systems.
I am prone to a flippant remark, and I mean nothing by it, but, whether or not ultrasonic signals exist in the source material or not, the chances of them getting through the filters (from the microphone all the way through to our own ears) are pretty much zero. And that's the key point from a rational understanding - a filter is not selective, it will smooth out any signal, and will attenuate all frequencies outside its passband to a degree proportional to the extent such a signal exceeds the designed upper or lower limit. So, even if the source produces ultrasonic overtones, they will get attenuated at every filter step in the recording and reproduction chain.
My own upper limit is about 15khz and will only get worse as I age. I'd rather spend my audio pennies improving the performance of the system within the range I can hear because that's ALL I can hear! Reproducing the ultrasonic harmonic products of cymbals won't be audible to me, no matter how faithfully my system might reproduce them.
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