I agree with you they're not cheap. But, as StigErik mentioned, everything is relative and though not cheap, the specifications are excellent. I think you'd be hard pressed finding anything similar to the ncore's for less than their price (in consumer market, which is the "realm" we're talking about).
Apart from marketing and pricing strategy, the ncore modules will in all probability be more expensive to manufacture than the standard ucd modules, and all time invested in a project will need to be made good, including the time Bruno spends here on the board (I can;t imagine he's here only for fun if you see the number of hypex/bruno/ucd bashing posts)
As I am working in the IT service industry, the following, service oriented, diagram is something that has haunted me for years now. I know there are ways to "escape" from it. Maybe not 100% applicable to "products", but you get the general idea.
Any 2 will combine, never 3.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And in addition to that, if they'd go on sale for 40 bucks apiece, no one would buy it, "that can;t be true, not for that kind of money".
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i've always liked (hard) anodizing, gives it a rugged look. Depending on the type of aluminium you're using of course.
Bumping my previous post;
"Can I use the balanced outs from legato which has common mode DC bias to balanced input on the ncore without using AC coupling caps?"
Does anyone know if this is safe? My legato has about 8 VDC from - and + to GRND on the balanced outs. There is no VDC between - and +.
"Can I use the balanced outs from legato which has common mode DC bias to balanced input on the ncore without using AC coupling caps?"
Does anyone know if this is safe? My legato has about 8 VDC from - and + to GRND on the balanced outs. There is no VDC between - and +.
Matjans, its like the iron law of speakers; you can get two of the following three characteristics: small size, high efficiency, or large bandwidth. Go low in a small box means you gotta feed it with a lot of juice; hence big IS good
That said, i think that the market will tell if the price point is right. Very few businesses are actually basing their price policy on the actual production costs, and why should they?
Innovation is to find new ways of combining things to make them offer better "value" than what was possible before. Who should benefit from this? -everybody of course. The innovator will benefit from combining parts that produce a better value than what others can offer. Users pay for the competitive "value" they get though a product, not the parts. Putting expensive parts together to produce something of less "value" is of course not good business and will therefore typically be short lived...
325 Euro´s + tax for a bunch of components is much, but for the performance they promise it seems very fair. Compared to the price for a UCD400 HXR or UCD700 HXR, the nc400 seems to be better value IMHO
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Bruno's know-how is unique in the Class D field and I'm happy to pay for that.
There are not many people around who can reach this level of performance with switching amplifiers.
That's IMHO the main reason why people of the "high end" industry fight Bruno and Class D in general. All those Class A/AB experts out there (including engineers and "engineers"-salesmen) simply can't compete and they're certainly not happy to have more competition or have their know-how appear as "outdated".
It's hard to teach an "old dog" new tricks and even harder to make him perform these tricks better than the "new dog".
So the only option is to buy the know-how. But instead of having to pay royalties to Bruno, Zetex or whomever (and having to come up with ways to differentiate your product from others using the same tech, having to justify the asking price etc.), it's much easier to guide your sheep to believe "Class D is not good enough yet so, yeah, all those people with the tiny, high power, low consumption, amplifiers are actually compromising sound quality".
If someone could make a better class D than NCore and then say "see, I can make it but it's not good enough for me. I'd rather build/use/sell *this* Class A/AB amp instead", I'd be all ears.
There are not many people around who can reach this level of performance with switching amplifiers.
That's IMHO the main reason why people of the "high end" industry fight Bruno and Class D in general. All those Class A/AB experts out there (including engineers and "engineers"-salesmen) simply can't compete and they're certainly not happy to have more competition or have their know-how appear as "outdated".
It's hard to teach an "old dog" new tricks and even harder to make him perform these tricks better than the "new dog".
So the only option is to buy the know-how. But instead of having to pay royalties to Bruno, Zetex or whomever (and having to come up with ways to differentiate your product from others using the same tech, having to justify the asking price etc.), it's much easier to guide your sheep to believe "Class D is not good enough yet so, yeah, all those people with the tiny, high power, low consumption, amplifiers are actually compromising sound quality".
If someone could make a better class D than NCore and then say "see, I can make it but it's not good enough for me. I'd rather build/use/sell *this* Class A/AB amp instead", I'd be all ears.
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No myth, no stock
I agree Matjans. It is also more practical. But, that said, the texture on the bare aluminium cylinder looks very nice at the moment. I'll clear anodize this prototype just to see what it looks like.
Thank you very much Juhleren. Being around the Stellenbosch Winelands might have "assisted" with the design, subconsciously!
But on a more serious note, the internals (should) fit quite nicely. The orientation of the ncore module is quite obvious, SMPS closest to front. The internals currently in production consist of isolated compartments with channels for the wires.ucd180hg have input caps but i wouldn`t be sure for ncore.
i tried to use it at b&w 1000asp dc coupled and it didn.t work.
i was forced to use caps.
I can't deny that the price of the NC is a bit steep for me at the moment but complaining is of not much use except annoying people. my experience taught me that trying to change things that cannot be changed only brings problems (for the one who is complaining)
I made a calculation last evening with cheapest case, cheapest PS and minimal functionality (only mains switch and XLR/RCA connectors) and when I added VAT and everything I was like OMG.
one option would be to buy only the case and the PS and order the NC when funds allow...
and yes, some more reports would help, no matter how subjective
I made a calculation last evening with cheapest case, cheapest PS and minimal functionality (only mains switch and XLR/RCA connectors) and when I added VAT and everything I was like OMG.
one option would be to buy only the case and the PS and order the NC when funds allow...
and yes, some more reports would help, no matter how subjective
@Francois: out of curiousity how will you cool the Ncore then, it will only touch the sides of your "bottle" right? Will this be enough cooling?
@others: If no DC blocking caps on the ncore... what is the maximum safe DC offset? How to measure it on balance output? Hot vs ground? I have a W4S DAC2 which does a nasty DC at turn-on time... - I have to somehow protect the the ncore to start slower than the W4S, in case mains power would drop out suddenly. :/
@others: If no DC blocking caps on the ncore... what is the maximum safe DC offset? How to measure it on balance output? Hot vs ground? I have a W4S DAC2 which does a nasty DC at turn-on time... - I have to somehow protect the the ncore to start slower than the W4S, in case mains power would drop out suddenly. :/
@Yves Smolders
No, it won't touch the side of the outer tube. There is an inner tube that is milled out of solid aluminium which is connected to the coin-like face shown in the photo (and backplate). This inner tube slides into the outer tube from the front. The ncore module is mounted (vertically) to a section of this milled aluminium inner tube (+/- 110mm (diameter) x 330mm).
No, it won't touch the side of the outer tube. There is an inner tube that is milled out of solid aluminium which is connected to the coin-like face shown in the photo (and backplate). This inner tube slides into the outer tube from the front. The ncore module is mounted (vertically) to a section of this milled aluminium inner tube (+/- 110mm (diameter) x 330mm).
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Bruno, do you remember where you posted that photo? I'd like to have a look.
[wise-*** mode on]that depends on how many posts per page you've got setup. I dread having to click "next page" so i set mine on max[wise-*** mode off]
Very nice indeed, Francois. Is that aluminium tube or machined?
edit: oh really, that gets filtered out ??
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@ matjans
It is machined out of solid 115mm tubing, primarily because of the 5mm lip at the back...and the fact that I couldn't get a hold of tubing with that diameter at the time Obviously, that does add "somewhat" to the cost. Managed to get a hold of tubing in the meantime, so I am considering another run which should be significantly cheaper. Also aiming for a more conventional smooth anodized finish this time around.
It is machined out of solid 115mm tubing, primarily because of the 5mm lip at the back...and the fact that I couldn't get a hold of tubing with that diameter at the time
Obviously, that does add "somewhat" to the cost. Managed to get a hold of tubing in the meantime, so I am considering another run which should be significantly cheaper. Also aiming for a more conventional smooth anodized finish this time around.- Status
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