Not sure I follow you there. I guess it is the usual problem with pronouns - which "they" are flawed, and what is the "that" that supposedly is unacceptable for me?
Hello guys (& gals),
Not really a question on the technical portion on Ncore DIY, but more on the NC400 + SMPS600 combo itself.
Background:-
Over the past 1-2 years, I had bring my DIY mono blocks to pair with some speakers for audition and/or to let others tried the Ncore on their system.
There were several instances that the NC400+SMPS600 combo couldn't seem to drive the speaker satisfactory (ie like missing high freq and/or slower speed).
To just name a few of these speakers that I can remember now: AERIAL 7T, Sonus faber Olympica II, PMC Twenty 26 & Wilson Alexx.
For the case of the Olympica II - an old Goldmund int amp (think only 150W into 8Ω) is able to drive it beautifully instead.
Same goes for Alexx - a pair of old goldmund monoblock (think 150W or 200W into 8Ω) were use & it's able to bring them alive.
Question:-
Technically, why is it that these speakers cannot be drive effectively by NC400+SMPS600 combo ??
Not enough current for them ? Or there are some other technical area(s) that is limiting NC400 (or even class D amp tech itself ?) ??
hope I didn't open up a can of worms
Not really a question on the technical portion on Ncore DIY, but more on the NC400 + SMPS600 combo itself.
Background:-
Over the past 1-2 years, I had bring my DIY mono blocks to pair with some speakers for audition and/or to let others tried the Ncore on their system.
There were several instances that the NC400+SMPS600 combo couldn't seem to drive the speaker satisfactory (ie like missing high freq and/or slower speed).
To just name a few of these speakers that I can remember now: AERIAL 7T, Sonus faber Olympica II, PMC Twenty 26 & Wilson Alexx.
For the case of the Olympica II - an old Goldmund int amp (think only 150W into 8Ω) is able to drive it beautifully instead.
Same goes for Alexx - a pair of old goldmund monoblock (think 150W or 200W into 8Ω) were use & it's able to bring them alive.
Question:-
Technically, why is it that these speakers cannot be drive effectively by NC400+SMPS600 combo ??
Not enough current for them ? Or there are some other technical area(s) that is limiting NC400 (or even class D amp tech itself ?) ??
hope I didn't open up a can of worms
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Depends on how you react to the answers...
"Missing high freq" and "slower speed" are of course subjective descriptions. The frequency reproduction of an amp is of course easy to verify objectively, and we know that the high frequencies are not attenuated by the ncores. "Speed" is trickier - what does it actually mean? The subjective term "speed" actually doesn't have anything to do with time (despite what the term normally means), but usually describes a high frequency distortion that emphasizes transients.
My guess is that those amps actually had (subjectively pleasing) distortion behavior that "brought them alive". Here we get into the tricky minefield of "transparent" and "neutral" vs. "pleasing" and "musical".
No technical reason, and in fact the ncores are much better at driving tricky loads than most "traditional" amplifiers. Just compare output impedance and current capability.
There is also nothing inherent in class D technology that would make it less capable of driving high-current loads. Of course, as with anything else, some implementations of the technology are better than others.
Both are "DIY" in some limited sense - neither is really what I would personally call DIY, but I guess it is still better than just buying commercial products and calling it a hobby
I understand that people are often carried away in forum discussions and say things that they don't mean.
I hope you didn't want to try to dictate which hobby is the "worthiest" for a person to have. Think what a musician would think about your hobby, had he use the same logic.
I used the word " personally" for a reason.
I am also well aware of what my musician friends think of the audiophile hobby, and unfortunately I often have to agree with them. Thankfully they mostly (but not always) have a slightly higher regard for pro audio.
Now that's what I would really like to see.
It would help me to get more into this hobby.
Why did you stop doing all these things?
Nowadays everybody wants to get some profit from what he makes. Even a simple schematic. No one wants to share.
Don't you think?
Ah; nobody died !
It's like the old conversations about MosFET and Bipolar outputs amps ! Some prefer tthe sounding presentation of Mosfet amps... Some old amps like the Accuphase 305 iirc and for instance was loved because that !
If the amp sould be neutral, I prefer my DAC plays the role of the pencil to color the sound as I like or prefer, and not several stages added in an oap buffer. Mostly if the op buffer amp is sold near half the price of the amp... There is a woodo here I find good just for the pockets of some (ugly) merchants !
It's like the old conversations about MosFET and Bipolar outputs amps ! Some prefer tthe sounding presentation of Mosfet amps... Some old amps like the Accuphase 305 iirc and for instance was loved because that !
If the amp sould be neutral, I prefer my DAC plays the role of the pencil to color the sound as I like or prefer, and not several stages added in an oap buffer. Mostly if the op buffer amp is sold near half the price of the amp... There is a woodo here I find good just for the pockets of some (ugly) merchants !
Let's not confuse professions with hobbies.
What ever anyone does to feel good in his spear time is respectable, unless that harms somebody else.
Mainly because I realized that while I was OK with traditional analog electronics, and digital circuits in the era of clock frequencies limited to a few MHz, I was no match for a younger generation of high-speed digital circuit layout wizzkids. I also realized that the real interesting stuff (for me) was in the digital domain, with DSP and stuff like AES67.
Not sure I agree. Pretty much all the software I use (and I use a lot) is open source. I use a lot of hardware that is semi-open-source. And there is now so much more information online (and communities with people willing to help) than what was available to us 20 years ago. OK, there is also a huge amount of misinformation online, but...
Ah; nobody died !
It's like the old conversations about MosFET and Bipolar outputs amps ! Some prefer tthe sounding presentation of Mosfet amps... Some old amps like the Accuphase 305 iirc and for instance was loved because that !
If the amp sould be neutral, I prefer my DAC plays the role of the pencil to color the sound as I like or prefer, and not several stages added in an oap buffer. Mostly if the op buffer amp is sold near half the price of the amp... There is a woodo here I find good just for the pockets of some (ugly) merchants !
So you do like to color the sound!
Ok, I prefer to do it with an op amp in an input buffer because I don't want to spent thousands on a device (dac) that would be obsolete in a year.
And if you really want to experience pleasant coloration and distortion, have look at a guitar amp (OK, not a fair comparison, a guitar amp (unlike a PA system) is part of an instrument).
A programmable DSP processor is even better for that.
It could be worse - they could be selling $1000 ethernet cables or magnetic alignment crystals...
Of course you are right.
But I expected for example someone to present that schematic to use the nc500 bufferless. And I'm sure many could do, but for some reason they don't. What's the reason?
@ AkisG: Yes the sound is always colored and water is less tasty than wine ! I would not say water is the best state to describe liquid element if the aesthetic is involved !
But you will change also your DAC in one year what happen... and you don't need to spend thousands to a good dac ! Mine is less expensive than the 300 euros asked for the NORD buffer on the NC500 amp ! And drole I even remember the merchant to say some op to be more real than a 2604 op I proposed. My opinion which is just mine is if you want to substract transparency with added stages, for coloring the sound : better to add a pleasant one that a so said discrete better than Nothing and more simple like with the embeded NC400 (which is doing the job if I understand !)
@ Julf : yes I take the tubed guitar amp if the guy at the input stage is Jimy Hendrix
But you will change also your DAC in one year what happen... and you don't need to spend thousands to a good dac ! Mine is less expensive than the 300 euros asked for the NORD buffer on the NC500 amp ! And drole I even remember the merchant to say some op to be more real than a 2604 op I proposed. My opinion which is just mine is if you want to substract transparency with added stages, for coloring the sound : better to add a pleasant one that a so said discrete better than Nothing and more simple like with the embeded NC400 (which is doing the job if I understand !)
@ Julf : yes I take the tubed guitar amp if the guy at the input stage is Jimy Hendrix
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Let me make a wild guess - maybe some of the people speaking about the circuits don't actually own (in the sense intellectual property" can be "owned" in the meaning of IP law) the designs, but are actually using circuits designed by someone else?
I agree as well : it is the future : emulate the sound like it is made with tube emulator softs for instance and with DSP for DRC.... but I'm sure some will add a buffer in between
It's like the people having an house at the sea and whom color the Windows in purple despite the "genuine" blue" or "green".... It's ugly, bade taste, less authentic, but hey they prefer the prurple of their windows !
Which is drole is to find (expensive) purple painting color 10 years guaranted for sea climat for that !
.... I'm getting old maybe !
It's like the people having an house at the sea and whom color the Windows in purple despite the "genuine" blue" or "green".... It's ugly, bade taste, less authentic, but hey they prefer the prurple of their windows !
Which is drole is to find (expensive) purple painting color 10 years guaranted for sea climat for that !
.... I'm getting old maybe !
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Perhaps a better analogy is that some of us like added sugar in their coffee/tea - but we don't necessarily like additional sugar in all our drinks.
Even with Jimi Hendrix, I would at some point get tired of everything sounding like Jimi Hendrix playing through a Marshall stack@ Julf : yes I take the tubed guitar amp if the guy at the input stage is Jimy Hendrix
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