Hypex Ncore

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hypex ncore

Not at this point - hoping Boggit will have a chance to do both some measurements and some double-blind ABX listening.



It won't take double blind ABX testing to hear a difference. Each opamp (discrete or IC) I've tried has a sound profile that can be picked out in a heartbeat.

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But having experience with different opamps and this amp, the ABX testing simply won't be required for him to tell if the discrete opamps sound better, or different, than the LM4562.

This discussion is getting a bit circular, but OK, I'll play along, and repeat:

If the differences are that clear, it should be easy to confirm in a double-blind ABX.
 
This discussion is getting a bit circular, but OK, I'll play along, and repeat:

If the differences are that clear, it should be easy to confirm in a double-blind ABX.


So do you figure double-blind ABX testing would be required to tell apart the NC-400's from the NAD M22? Or the Acoustic Imagery Atash 1200 from the Mola Mola Kaluga? Or how about the Acoustic Imagery Atash 500 from the Bel Canto REF600m?

These pairs all use the same power supplies and amp modules. Only difference is the buffer stages.
 
Well if everything else is RFI protected, my unprotected amp is OK right? :)

Sensitive systems are protected (just think about some of the measurement systems that they use in particle physics research that have to be able to measure the current generated by a single electron - 0.0000000000000000001 A). The problem is that standard consumer electronics are only protected to a pretty lax consumer standard, and many devices *have* to emit radiation in order to function - bluetooth, wifi, cordless phones etc.

But RFI protection is not rocket science (OK, rocket science needs RFI protection too) - it is mostly a well understood topic.
 
So do you figure double-blind ABX testing would be required to tell apart the NC-400's from the NAD M22? Or the Acoustic Imagery Atash 1200 from the Mola Mola Kaluga? Or how about the Acoustic Imagery Atash 500 from the Bel Canto REF600m?

I don't know, but it would be easy to find out. I don't quite understand your resistance towards more objective tests.

What I do know is that in most of my tests, differences in speakers, room, source material and listener mood have tended to mask any minor differences in the rest of the chain.
 
I don't know, but it would be easy to find out. I don't quite understand your resistance towards more objective tests.

What I do know is that in most of my tests, differences in speakers, room, source material and listener mood have tended to mask any minor differences in the rest of the chain.


I'm just saying that by changing the discrete opamp, you are changing the input buffer of the amp with completely different circuitry. And it will measure differently, and sound differently. The complete amp is a combination of the input and output stage. You are creating a different amplifier every time you switch that opamp with a different one. This is the whole beauty of designing it this way. Now nobody can say they don't like how the amp sounds, they can just say they don't like how that particular opamps sounds instead, and pop in a different one.

If I were Boggit, I would just equip the amps with the standard LM4562 for the initial sale, and have a package of say 5-6 different opamps circulate in the mail from customer to customer, for them to spend a few days will all of them. Then once they find their favourite subjective match, they can simply order it on their own. And send the package into the next guy.

This will save the customers from having to buy them all for themselves to test out.
 
I'm just saying that by changing the discrete opamp, you are changing the input buffer of the amp with completely different circuitry. And it will measure differently, and sound differently.

They will measure different (if you measure the right things, and use sensitive enough measurement systems). That does not necessarily imply that they sound different - many opamps might be good enough that the differences are inaudible. Stating that they *will* sound different is stating a belief, not a fact.
 
They will measure different (if you measure the right things, and use sensitive enough measurement systems). That does not necessarily imply that they sound different - many opamps might be good enough that the differences are inaudible. Stating that they *will* sound different is stating a belief, not a fact.


Why didn't Bruno just use the cheapest IC opamp he could find for the NC400 then? It would have sounded the same anyways. Why go though the hassle and expense of designing something discrete?
 
Why didn't Bruno just use the cheapest IC opamp he could find for the NC400 then? It would have sounded the same anyways. Why go though the hassle and expense of designing something discrete?

Did I say that *all* opamps sound the same?

I prefer discussions based on facts and evidence. Speculation about the motives of people is really neither, but I am sure that if you ask Bruno, he won't tell you "oh well, I tried a lot of different ones, and I used what sounded best". I think he would provide you with a rational explanation based on actually analyzing the situation and verifying his assumptions.
 
I am sure measurements are very important when designing equipment but when you pop into a hi fi dealer with your favourite music to audition something you do only use your ears and make a decision based on that.

This I must agree with :)

Blind tests have their place ....things like speaker cables and interconnects warrant these kind of tests (in my opinion) as the differences are questionable!!
 
I am sure measurements are very important when designing equipment but when you pop into a hi fi dealer with your favourite music to audition something you do only use your ears and make a decision based on that.

Absolutely - when you are picking out stuff for yourself. Listening is the only way to decide what *you* like. But if I like A and you like B, that says nothing about the objective, absolute superiority of one over the other.

When trying to find out if there really is a difference between two different components, it is also essential to listen only with your ears, not with your eyes, beliefs or preconceived notions.
 
yeah...

Yes but the opamp needs to have enough current for the task. The Opa627 isn't cut out for this.

bav, I was wondering about this with OPA rolling for the NC-500 (and I include discrete OPAs as part of that description, after all, the term opamp describes a type of circuit, and not that it could be an IC).
The NC-500 module has very low input Z, and hence must require an input stage which can deliver pretty high current, right? I wonder if in testing, some listening observations are actually differences in frequency response as a result of insufficient drive capability? Of course, measurements could easily confirm this...
 
I include discrete OPAs as part of that description, after all, the term opamp describes a type of circuit, and not that it could be an IC

As discussed before, an opamp can be discrete or integrated, but the crucial characteristics are a differential input, very high input impedance, and very high open loop gain (an ideal opamp has infinite gain, infinite input impedance and zero output impedance - a real one should approximate the ideal).
 
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