What I have in the works is irrelevant. I mentioned it won't be a stand alone amplifier that's competitive to any of the DIY or commercial offerings on the market.
I have shared my test results of the modules here because I figured being an Ncore thread, people would be interested. For those who are bothered by this information, please skip on by and pretend you didn't read it.
And what was the situation at 112 dB?
If your speaker sensitivity is 88 dB@1m, it takes more than 500 W to produce 115 dB even at 1 m. At proper listening distance you need much more. How far from the speaker is your listening position?
Let's say your listening position is 3 m from the speakers. To produce 115 dB@3m, you need 124 dB@1m, and that requires 4 kW. I am not surprised the nc400 compresses and saturates at that level, but I would be surprised if the nc500 wouldn't do the same.
Was your listening sighted or double-blind? How did you switch between the amps, and how did you measure and calibrate the levels?
Julf,
as i had posted earlier, i am using two NC400 driven with a single SMPS600.
These 2 channels are to be used for mid and high on my 4-way speaker
the midrange uses 8ohm seas midwoofer W15CY001, sensitivity 85.5dB
the tweeter is 6ohm seas T25CF001, sensitivity 91dB
the mid driver has very poor sensitivity. Will i be able to maintain reasonable SPL with the ncore amplifier above, without straining the amps and SQ
as i had posted earlier, i am using two NC400 driven with a single SMPS600.
These 2 channels are to be used for mid and high on my 4-way speaker
the midrange uses 8ohm seas midwoofer W15CY001, sensitivity 85.5dB
the tweeter is 6ohm seas T25CF001, sensitivity 91dB
the mid driver has very poor sensitivity. Will i be able to maintain reasonable SPL with the ncore amplifier above, without straining the amps and SQ
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hypex ncore
My testing was in room, with a pair of speakers, and the mic about 2.5m back at ear level on a tripod. Clio was the measurement system, and I had music playing. I just cranked it up until the peaks on the RTA were hitting 115db.
I already explained the results. Double blind tests were not required. I'm quite familiar with the sound of an amplifier being over driven.
Regardless, the NC500 is a more powerful amp. That's the bottom line. The extra 30w at 2 ohms the NC400 has is not going to make 99% of speakers on the market sound cleaner at high levels. The extra 300 the NC500 has at 4 ohms will though.
I'm not saying the NC400 isn't a powerful amp. I'm just saying the NC500 is more powerful.
My testing was in room, with a pair of speakers, and the mic about 2.5m back at ear level on a tripod. Clio was the measurement system, and I had music playing. I just cranked it up until the peaks on the RTA were hitting 115db.
I already explained the results. Double blind tests were not required. I'm quite familiar with the sound of an amplifier being over driven.
Regardless, the NC500 is a more powerful amp. That's the bottom line. The extra 30w at 2 ohms the NC400 has is not going to make 99% of speakers on the market sound cleaner at high levels. The extra 300 the NC500 has at 4 ohms will though.
I'm not saying the NC400 isn't a powerful amp. I'm just saying the NC500 is more powerful.
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I don't think you'll have a problem. You won't be working the amps hard at all. Where are you crossing them over at?
I imagine you'll go with a 4th order slope with those drivers. You won't have an issue at all. Personally I'd even cross the mid over lower. What are you using for woofers?
400W into the mid woofer will result in something like 112 dB @ 1m, more than enough for any normal listening.
That will be an easy load. I wouldn't worry about being underpowered. I was pushing dual 7" Scan-Speak illuminators with their power hungry underhung voice coil crossed over at 120hz hard to get my NC-400's to strain.
What measuring microphone are you using?
I recognize that that is your opinion. I am not sure the less then 3 dB difference will be very significant - people mostly don't listen at 115 dB. That is why I was asking if you actually tested both amps at 112 dB as well.
And I agree - I'm just saying the difference might not be that relevant in normal use.
my available listening room might need good spl.
14'x13'x19' (tall ceiling) and the room opens into a normal ceiling dining area.
But i'm not experience on this, so may be 109dB playing from the two towers would be just the right level for some normal music listening. Not really looking for headbanging loud rock.
14'x13'x19' (tall ceiling) and the room opens into a normal ceiling dining area.
But i'm not experience on this, so may be 109dB playing from the two towers would be just the right level for some normal music listening. Not really looking for headbanging loud rock.
It was the CLIO MIC-01. I've had the NC-400's for 3.5 years. I've listened to them at all volumes levels many times. So far I've listened to the NC-500's at all volume levels as well. With the buffer stages I'm using, I'm not missing the 400's at any volume level.
I would suggest downloading one of the smartphone apps for measuring sound level, and use it as a first check - you might be surprised at how normal listening levels are really not very loud, and you might also be surprised at how loud 109 dB is.
Listening to 109 dB for even a quite short period of a time can very easily cause hearing damage.
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/
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I agree, but could you please also tell it to the student fraternity across the street?
Sounds like a lot to me... Perhaps I am getting too old, or do people confuse peak dB and average listening level?
109dB average, with peaks then in the 120dB range is not domestic music listening anymore and I doubt anyone can make audio quality statements at 120dB (?)
As of me, when I want to enjoy myself or have a serious audio test / comparison, I listen to (as measurements have shown) "ground music level" = 90dB with peaks depending on kind of music being then anything up to +10 to +15dB (mostly on classic and then I have the "ground leve" usualy 5dB lower). that's just because "I" like it that way, not saying it should be like this of course. And at that level I am not able to listen "carefully" for over 2h-3h. Background enjoyable music, played all over the day when at home, tends to be 85dB average (still at the listening position), with of course the same peaks.
So in real life, as of me, with 2 speakers having 87dB/W/m sensivity, a 3m listening distance BUT not an open field as many wall reflections, that means in real life a few Watts from my amp for the the average listening level with reserves of 150W to cover peaks (more a matter of having quickly a lot of amperes to feed my 3 Ohm speaker impedance minimum).
Now i would need your light. I was quite familar with HIFI and designing it but decided a decade ago to just enjoy my system. I must confess I didn't dig into the SMPS and Class D bits at all until recently, have never listened to them, but I follow this with a lot of interest on this forum.
Somewhere, should I just want to go a bit DIY again to keep myself busy, it seems either the classical way (First One v1.4? Pass F5 Turbo?) could be an option, but as said I am very intrigated by Class D (although sadly not having listened to any) and that could be the way forward next time for a lot of reasons and in that case the NC400 would have my preference.
Now to the question. Given my needs, eg a big lot less than 100W continuous power and perhaps at worst 250W on peaks, how do the SMPS works in terms of peak ampere delivery (in comparison to continuous ampere delivery)? I know what to do on conventional PS but no clue on these - How do they behave on burst, can they deliver more on short bursts?
Could I just cope with one SMPS for 2 NC400 for my needs? Would there be ANY benefits at all from running 2 SMPS in terms of current delivery on peaks only? If yes, then I appreciate indeed large reserves from PS (at least on conventional PS; I have 2 tranformators and 66000mF from small caps currently), but if the SMPS dedicated to the NC 400 is aleady capable to deliver a lot more ampere on bursts, then probably 1 SMPS would be enough? I couldn't find the SMPS ampere delivery long term and on peaks...
Many thanks for your help
Claude
109dB average, with peaks then in the 120dB range is not domestic music listening anymore and I doubt anyone can make audio quality statements at 120dB (?)
As of me, when I want to enjoy myself or have a serious audio test / comparison, I listen to (as measurements have shown) "ground music level" = 90dB with peaks depending on kind of music being then anything up to +10 to +15dB (mostly on classic and then I have the "ground leve" usualy 5dB lower). that's just because "I" like it that way, not saying it should be like this of course. And at that level I am not able to listen "carefully" for over 2h-3h. Background enjoyable music, played all over the day when at home, tends to be 85dB average (still at the listening position), with of course the same peaks.
So in real life, as of me, with 2 speakers having 87dB/W/m sensivity, a 3m listening distance BUT not an open field as many wall reflections, that means in real life a few Watts from my amp for the the average listening level with reserves of 150W to cover peaks (more a matter of having quickly a lot of amperes to feed my 3 Ohm speaker impedance minimum).
Now i would need your light. I was quite familar with HIFI and designing it but decided a decade ago to just enjoy my system. I must confess I didn't dig into the SMPS and Class D bits at all until recently, have never listened to them, but I follow this with a lot of interest on this forum.
Somewhere, should I just want to go a bit DIY again to keep myself busy, it seems either the classical way (First One v1.4? Pass F5 Turbo?) could be an option, but as said I am very intrigated by Class D (although sadly not having listened to any) and that could be the way forward next time for a lot of reasons and in that case the NC400 would have my preference.
Now to the question. Given my needs, eg a big lot less than 100W continuous power and perhaps at worst 250W on peaks, how do the SMPS works in terms of peak ampere delivery (in comparison to continuous ampere delivery)? I know what to do on conventional PS but no clue on these - How do they behave on burst, can they deliver more on short bursts?
Could I just cope with one SMPS for 2 NC400 for my needs? Would there be ANY benefits at all from running 2 SMPS in terms of current delivery on peaks only? If yes, then I appreciate indeed large reserves from PS (at least on conventional PS; I have 2 tranformators and 66000mF from small caps currently), but if the SMPS dedicated to the NC 400 is aleady capable to deliver a lot more ampere on bursts, then probably 1 SMPS would be enough? I couldn't find the SMPS ampere delivery long term and on peaks...
Many thanks for your help
Claude
Is a single SMPS600 able to deliver 2 x 24 A on impulse, to feed adequately two NC400?
Note datasheet seems (??) to indicate (only!) 7A. But that wouldn't make any sense (P=RI^2, so under 4Ohm that would be max total power = 196W, a far cry from 600W)
Not interested in continuous power delivery, only impulse's reserve... I have currently 44A capability on impulse (more than enough and twice what the my small transistors can cope with)
Note datasheet seems (??) to indicate (only!) 7A. But that wouldn't make any sense (P=RI^2, so under 4Ohm that would be max total power = 196W, a far cry from 600W)
Not interested in continuous power delivery, only impulse's reserve... I have currently 44A capability on impulse (more than enough and twice what the my small transistors can cope with)
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