matjans, don't know if it will help or not, but I just had the same thing happen with woofers and only on certain frequencies.
I ordered new woofers (one was worse than the other) and when I removed the first original woofer I discovered the problem too late after I had already de-soldered the woofer. The cable on the first woofer was rubbing against the basket and the cable insulation had worn all the way through to the wire. The wire was vibrating against the basket at certain frequencies and rattling.
On the other woofer same problem, but in a different area. Once again, the cable was worn through to the wire where the cable rested against the sharp edge of the routed hole in the cabinet that was cut for the woofer. This woofer also only rattled with certain frequencies.
I can't say for sure if this was the only problem with the woofers since I replaced both woofers with new ones, but I suspect it was the sole problem. Everything else looked perfect with the old woofers when I removed them. I emailed Eton to ask if I could send the woofers to them to check for problems and possible repair, but I never heard back from anyone at Eton.
I ordered new woofers (one was worse than the other) and when I removed the first original woofer I discovered the problem too late after I had already de-soldered the woofer. The cable on the first woofer was rubbing against the basket and the cable insulation had worn all the way through to the wire. The wire was vibrating against the basket at certain frequencies and rattling.
On the other woofer same problem, but in a different area. Once again, the cable was worn through to the wire where the cable rested against the sharp edge of the routed hole in the cabinet that was cut for the woofer. This woofer also only rattled with certain frequencies.
I can't say for sure if this was the only problem with the woofers since I replaced both woofers with new ones, but I suspect it was the sole problem. Everything else looked perfect with the old woofers when I removed them. I emailed Eton to ask if I could send the woofers to them to check for problems and possible repair, but I never heard back from anyone at Eton.
I need some help in deciding whether to use one SMPS600 for each module or share.
I'm going to use four Ncore400 modules with these speakers (external crossover and biwiring):
Audio Artistry / CBT Products
Here's some info about the speakers:
Nominal Impedance:
4 Ohms (Not falling below 3.9 Ohms for LF and 3.6 Ohms for HF, see following section for graphs).
Amplifier Requirements:
LF: 50 to 500 Watts. HF: 50 to 150 Watts. Higher powered amps can be used to reproduce short-term
transients without clipping for high crest-factor program material.
Maximum Continuous Input Voltage and Power:
LF: 45 Vrms (500 Watts in 4 Ohms). HF: 25 Vrms (150 Watts in 4 ohms).
Looks like the speakers should be an easy load for the amps.
So the question if there's any point in using four SMPS600 or if two is sufficient? I don't want to make any compromise when it comes to sound, but I don't see the point in wasting either. Money isn't an issue here.
I'm going to use four Ncore400 modules with these speakers (external crossover and biwiring):
Audio Artistry / CBT Products
Here's some info about the speakers:
Nominal Impedance:
4 Ohms (Not falling below 3.9 Ohms for LF and 3.6 Ohms for HF, see following section for graphs).
Amplifier Requirements:
LF: 50 to 500 Watts. HF: 50 to 150 Watts. Higher powered amps can be used to reproduce short-term
transients without clipping for high crest-factor program material.
Maximum Continuous Input Voltage and Power:
LF: 45 Vrms (500 Watts in 4 Ohms). HF: 25 Vrms (150 Watts in 4 ohms).
Looks like the speakers should be an easy load for the amps.
So the question if there's any point in using four SMPS600 or if two is sufficient? I don't want to make any compromise when it comes to sound, but I don't see the point in wasting either. Money isn't an issue here.
Attachments
I need some help in deciding whether to use one SMPS600 for each module or share.
I'm going to use four Ncore400 modules with these speakers (external crossover and biwiring):
Audio Artistry / CBT Products
Here's some info about the speakers:
Nominal Impedance:
4 Ohms (Not falling below 3.9 Ohms for LF and 3.6 Ohms for HF, see following section for graphs).
Amplifier Requirements:
LF: 50 to 500 Watts. HF: 50 to 150 Watts. Higher powered amps can be used to reproduce short-term
transients without clipping for high crest-factor program material.
Maximum Continuous Input Voltage and Power:
LF: 45 Vrms (500 Watts in 4 Ohms). HF: 25 Vrms (150 Watts in 4 ohms).
Looks like the speakers should be an easy load for the amps.
So the question if there's any point in using four SMPS600 or if two is sufficient? I don't want to make any compromise when it comes to sound, but I don't see the point in wasting either. Money isn't an issue here.
Omholt - look at some of the previous reviews from this week.
It’s stated very clearly that two PSU performs much better than one and directly affect the sound quality as well.
Good luck with the AMPs. They ROCK ((((())))))
And mine as well
I guess you won`t really know, unless you try both options
I doubt that you`ll find any other members, in this forum, with the excact same speakers as yourself so who can tell
That should work just fine. This is more or less what the LS1 does: AK4396 + 2-pole filter + Ncore. The firmware has a DC offset trim but I've never needed it.
I wonder why you think so? Why would there be bigger difference in bass sound quality with a passive speaker than an active one?
I have an active system crossed at 200 Hz, and found the NC400 to be much better than UcD400 in the 20-200 Hz range, as well as 200-20k Hz.
Gonzx I think we have missed a detail Omholt is going to run his system with two NC400 – one for the bass part and one for the midrange/treble for each loudspeaker – so his question I think is okay.And mine as well
I guess you won`t really know, unless you try both options
I doubt that you`ll find any other members, in this forum, with the excact same speakers as yourself so who can tell
He’s system is probably build with some kind of active filtering since he want to go for that expensive solution.
I'm thinking along 2 lines.
1) IMD. Distortion products don't only appear at higher frequencies but also at lower frequencies. IMD from stuff that's happening in the mid and high frequencies clog up the bottom end. This means that the requirements on an amp are more stringent if it gets the entire frequency range to reproduce.
2) Psychoacoustics. Remember the old adage "you'd be amazed what a good tweeter can do for your bass". I remember old "transistor amps" with lots of HF distortion had a bizarre ultra-tight bass. Not actual bass control but something that passed for it to the unsuspecting listener. Remember the KSA80. That kind of bottom end.
These two mechanisms by which an amp can affect the bass are absent when it's doing bass-only duty. If an amp in those conditions still makes a significant difference you can imagine why I'm interested. It means that there is something going on that isn't mentioned above and I'd like to understand.
I rarely output more than 10 W into 2 ohms on my woofer system, so power is not one of the explanations I think. DF might be, but at the other end of a 2 meter long speaker cable, the DF is certainly no longer 10000. More likely its 100 or less.
I would like to know why the NC400 is so much better as well.
Actually, there is bigger difference in the bass between NC400 and UcD400HG than between UcD400HG and ICEpower 1000ASP.
I would like to know why the NC400 is so much better as well.
Actually, there is bigger difference in the bass between NC400 and UcD400HG than between UcD400HG and ICEpower 1000ASP.
I think the low output impedance only becomes meaningful when you're biwiring a full-range passive system as it helps isolate the sections. Otherwise it's not just so much the cable resistance but the voice coil resistance that dominates actual damping. And that's a good thing because the electroacoustical design of loudspeakers hinges on damping that is well defined and very much finite.
Well... as long as the Ncore sounds like its not there, I really dont care why its this good. Its a different case for Bruno perhaps.
I said early in this thread that if the Ncore sounded as good as it measures, it might very well be the last amp I'll ever buy. I think it is. Congrats and thanks to Hypex and Bruno for giving me peace of mind regarding power amps. I hope you sell a lot of these, and I'm sure you will.
I said early in this thread that if the Ncore sounded as good as it measures, it might very well be the last amp I'll ever buy. I think it is. Congrats and thanks to Hypex and Bruno for giving me peace of mind regarding power amps. I hope you sell a lot of these, and I'm sure you will.
I´m thinking in a third line: Maybe our hearing is more difficult to cheat than we thought of before. It wouldn´t surprise me if a futher reduction in distortion caused by power amps is still audible -even in pure bass duty. I wouldn´t underestimate human hearing -its a highly developed cognitive instrument ;-)
It will probably NEVER be "good enough" as long as it is artificial...
cheers,
same as with inaudible content (>20-22kHz), appearantly it has some influence on how sound is appreciated by the brain (Inaudible high-frequency sounds affect brain ... [J Neurophysiol. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI) --long live pubmed btw.
Edit: after some further reading: maybe not Appearantly research gives mixed results. Anyway, the idea is there...
Edit: after some further reading: maybe not
Appearantly research gives mixed results. Anyway, the idea is there...
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Congratulations, Bruno on a job apparently well done!
Please correct if necessary. Pretty sure correct as I took note relative to my speakers:
One SMPS600 per one NC400 amp = 2 Ohm minimum load rating
One SMPS600 per two NC400 amps = 5 Ohm minimum load rating
Please correct if necessary. Pretty sure correct as I took note relative to my speakers:
One SMPS600 per one NC400 amp = 2 Ohm minimum load rating
One SMPS600 per two NC400 amps = 5 Ohm minimum load rating
String instruments such as bass have a very rich sawtooth waveform, whose harmonics extend well up into the mid range and even the treble. Many believe, including myself (Bruno chime in!) that listeners may perceive improved mid/treble range performance as improved "bass", even if performance in the range of the bass fundamentals is unchanged.
It seems less likely listeners might perceive improved bass via improvement only in the range of bass fundamentals, for the following reason:
Again, please correct if necessary. IIRC studies support the conclusion that in the range of bass fundamentals, humans have difficulty perceiving a difference between 1% THD and 30% (yes, thirty percent) THD (modal effects caused by the room are a completely different story for many reasons).
So I'd agree with Bruno, and be interested how/why there is much difference between the two Hypex amps reproducing only below 200 Hz...
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