well, I don't have a degree in political correctness and if offending a small percentage of the readers is the effect, then so be it. it's my conviction.
the signature is a quote from another user from an unrelated thread that was trying to base a discussion on facts and instead had to fight the usual hearsay, audiophile myths and whatnot.
I'm convinced that most of the people reading it don't get hung up on that word and get its point.
@Goophy,
nice to hear that the NCORE stands up to the A-60. Accuphase amps are very complex and the measurements I've seen are impressive. I've read an interview with one of the designers once and it was absolutely no-nonsense and down to earth. I'd say that their designers adhere to a philosophy similar to Bruno's. all in all from a technical standpoint they're the opposite of the "one gain stage, 5% THD" amp.
I've listened to some of their most expensive products in a high end system and it was the best sound I heard so far.
I guess Bruno decided to handle that delicate first watt with the appropriate care... It was about time!
Hi
is likely that you have little knowledge and make others pay for your ignorance.
I think that, after seeing that you continually ask explanation.
why not increase your study, before you think that others are inconsistent?
You do not have to believe me or another. you have to understand with your brain. then is sufficient 10% of any thread...
Regards
Pieter T,
You have many interesting things to say. Often valid, sometimes controversial, sometimes challenging and thought provoking, but never presented in a manner that invites a fruitful and pleasant exchange.
Your attempts to keep the thread on its rails are equally well appreciated but the "guerilla mod" style less so. It is probably intended to create a lofty impression of the objective observer who stands above the fray, but in actual fact the guerilla mod almost instantly gets the label of prat stuck on. I'm telling you this because you don't seem to have noticed.
The things that you want to add or question are very welcome so there's no need to change any of that. But like it or not, this forum is populated with humans and the way a person responds to a statement is much more determined by the way it is put than what it actually says.
Take this for instance.
version A: "This review is useless".
version B: "I'm not sure I understand how an amplifier can emphasize highs, mids and lows at the same time without ending up with a balanced sound again".
Version A is in itself not helpful because it doesn't point out why you think it is uninformative (it is also contrarian because it is in response to the first NC400 review where the listener has actually gone out of his way to match signal levels to insure a fair comparison).
I hope you won't run off after these comments, but I do hope you will take some time to ask yourself why the atmosphere sours so often after you contribute something which on the face of it seems meaningful enough.
Sorry for the interjection, I hope we can continue talking audio after this.
You have many interesting things to say. Often valid, sometimes controversial, sometimes challenging and thought provoking, but never presented in a manner that invites a fruitful and pleasant exchange.
Your attempts to keep the thread on its rails are equally well appreciated but the "guerilla mod" style less so. It is probably intended to create a lofty impression of the objective observer who stands above the fray, but in actual fact the guerilla mod almost instantly gets the label of prat stuck on. I'm telling you this because you don't seem to have noticed.
The things that you want to add or question are very welcome so there's no need to change any of that. But like it or not, this forum is populated with humans and the way a person responds to a statement is much more determined by the way it is put than what it actually says.
Take this for instance.
version A: "This review is useless".
version B: "I'm not sure I understand how an amplifier can emphasize highs, mids and lows at the same time without ending up with a balanced sound again".
Version A is in itself not helpful because it doesn't point out why you think it is uninformative (it is also contrarian because it is in response to the first NC400 review where the listener has actually gone out of his way to match signal levels to insure a fair comparison).
I hope you won't run off after these comments, but I do hope you will take some time to ask yourself why the atmosphere sours so often after you contribute something which on the face of it seems meaningful enough.
Sorry for the interjection, I hope we can continue talking audio after this.
AP2,
any time you address me I have to consider if responding is worth it. it's only that the language barrier makes all this so difficult, many times I'm simply incapable of understanding your point because you fail to use decent English, ALTHOUGH someone offered to translate for you.
this being said, I'll give it another attempt.
I'm not an EE and at at 32 I feel it's a bit late for a career change. I have a degree in computer engineering and that includes a basic understanding of electronics, control/systems theory, signal processing etc. my curiosity made me take things a bit further and I think my understanding in analog is just a tad above the basics. it's a hobby. I specialize in verifying digital circuits and that in itself is a VERY complex field. I do believe that an high level of understanding of analog takes A LOT of effort and is an investment in time and $$$. yes, I think that design without the proper tools is a waste of time. I have worked at companies where I've seen the limitations of a $3000 scope. believe me I can't afford that for what is only a hobby. what I'm trying to say is that I have no desire to attain the level that the likes of Bruno reached but I think that given my current level of understanding I can do a fair job at telling BS from facts.
believe it or not, but reading Bruno's posts I learned a lot of things. want an example? that thing about stray field of flat toroids. and, believe me, there's way more, and some of it is not even related to amplifiers.
I can't remember you helping me in any way. or anyone else for that matter. all I remember is some tirade on slew rate and a few similar others.
and I remember you promoting hearsay. like that "I do not make high NFB amps because audiophiles don't want that". sorry but that's so stuck to my brain I can't help it. is that some sort of science and I don't get it?
sorry guys about this rant, feel free to report it if you feel I crossed the line.
Last edited:
Ncore dual mono case
Found this rather simple and quit affordable case, which I think
may be just large enough to house a single channel of Ncore + SMPS600.
Proma Euro-Aluminium-Kühlrippenprofil-Gehäuse 130048 Front-, Rückplatte: 1,5 mm Aluminium-Blech (L x B x H) 165 x 110 x... im Conrad Online Shop for 22.78 € (tva included)
It is build up with 2 boxes with external fins as heath-sink, made by Proma.
I reckon that it is possible to fit the NCore against the top and the SMPS on the bottom, one above the other. Just wondering if there is no safety issue when fixing the Ncore directly to the metal outer case (even if it is grounded).
Since these boxes our made of extruded aluminum, they are made on larger lengths,
and can be combined.
Any thoughts are welcome,
Edwin
Found this rather simple and quit affordable case, which I think
may be just large enough to house a single channel of Ncore + SMPS600.
Proma Euro-Aluminium-Kühlrippenprofil-Gehäuse 130048 Front-, Rückplatte: 1,5 mm Aluminium-Blech (L x B x H) 165 x 110 x... im Conrad Online Shop for 22.78 € (tva included)
It is build up with 2 boxes with external fins as heath-sink, made by Proma.
I reckon that it is possible to fit the NCore against the top and the SMPS on the bottom, one above the other. Just wondering if there is no safety issue when fixing the Ncore directly to the metal outer case (even if it is grounded).
Since these boxes our made of extruded aluminum, they are made on larger lengths,
and can be combined.
Any thoughts are welcome,
Edwin
I have heard the A-60 and was not impressed just thought it was to " warm " !
a little booring.I have heard the A-60 and was not impressed just thought it was to " warm " !
That's the problem with neutral amplifiers, some people want or are used to very coloured sound.
The NCore would probably sound a tiny bit more "boring" to you then I guess.
I've heard the P-7100. not sure if it was the amp or something else but, damn, I was flabbergasted.I have heard the A-60 and was not impressed just thought it was to " warm " !
nice find!
OTOH, one may ask oneself why would anyone spending ~EUR 1000 on amp hardware be so cheap as to use something like that?
right now I'm doing a design based on the HiFi2000 slimline case. nothing fancy, just a NCORE engraving on the front plate, vandal power switch, balanced ins and outs (no RCA mind you). that NCORE logo should definitely force me to order the NCOREs too, it'd be quite an irony to have some A/B amp inside it
BTW any suggestions for a better looking power switch? the vandal type is not awful but I still can't get past the cheapish feel. the elevator here has them!
Last edited:
One also has to remember than you are not just listening to the amp either....but rather you're hearing your entire playback chain including room. So really, hearing the Ncores in your own system using level matched AB is the best way IMO to evaluate. When new products come out I look for consistency in the user comments. I think you are seeing that consistency in this thread.
Hi Dan
You could use thinner top and bottom plates or, you could design a 2mm thick plexiglass plate with holes to match the SMPS600 and the same area with neat rounded corners to go under the SMPS with shorter stand offs. (2mm clear plexiglass is a material option) Don't forget to connect the one corner of the SMPS pcb to the enclosure chassis to improve EMI performance.
You do not understand much I see !
Maybe I misunderstood.
You said the Accuphase A-60 was boring. That's a pretty neutral amplifier.
The NCore is even more neutral, so that would be more boring?
Or did you mean something completely different?
Bruno,
You start saying that my contribution is never presented in an manner that invites a fruitful and pleasant exchange, and at the end "my contributions so often sour the atmosphere", so we're making progress
Well I guess that your remark applies for the last couple of weeks, and not so much when you would reread a bit further back.
This thread started June 7th by Tom, who asked when the then announced Ncore modules would become available. Jan Peter popped in by telling it would last till the last quarter of the year.
Since then discussions emerged, and sometimes irritations too.
Not so special actually, but back in October (post #529) I suggested that the Vendor's Bazaar should be a better place for the thread, also because first release of the modules was approaching, and the forum rules are clear.
After some problems again in January moderation finally took action to remove the thread to the VB.
In my opinion your position is different from that time on; initially you were formally just one of the forum members participating in the discussion, and since January you are officially "the man behind the thread".
No problem, and your efforts to participate the way you do are a big +.
As in many forums, the "man behind" becomes a guru for other members; this is a given fact.
Again not so much a problem, other members have a different attitude.
As often happens, the all-knowing guru will be asked (off topic) questions like:
"your amp is great; now what do you suggest being the best dac??", or
"which cable is best; should it be balanced or unbalanced??".
Some will follow your advice, but IMO there must be opportunity for others to react with what I'd like to call "spirited and opinionated opposition" when there is disagreement.
In the case of the NOS dac, I felt your reaction to be defensive, rather disrespectful towards many wo have done useful work in that field, and actually pretty arrogant towards people who auditioned a very good sounding NOS dac ("in other words, NOS is just a way of introducing a euphonic frequency response aberration. All the philosophies intended to imply that somehow NOS does something "better" than a properly filtered converter is poppycock"). Did you audition the dac in question?
Your version A - version B example is correct; I should have followed the version B path. However sometimes I wonder if members read their writing before posting; and we have an "edit" function to correct.
Let me conclude: spirited and opinionated opposition is my style when I feel the need; when you, and others, feel that there is no place for it here, i will back off.
Peiter,
You seem thrilled about the Octave, and after some reading around you clearly don´t seem to be alone
Though most reports are surely impressive, I still am not too comfortable with the NOS dac tendency for HF roll off. Metrum claims that they have compensated a little for for this in their processing technique. How would your describe the experienced balance of the octave in your system? And do you feel there are any cons regarding its sound, that one should be aware of?
Sorry everybody for this seemingly off topic question, but for a future ncore build to make sense, one surely needs a dac worthy of what Bruno has created
-Peiter if you prefer (for avoiding too much off topic discussion), then please feel free to pm me with your answer.
Personally I feel that it can be difficult maintain a clear view of what is within and what is outside the topic of the thread...
cheers,
PM sent.
Hi Edwin, for a bit more you can buy the Galaxy Maggiorato case (1GX183) from Modu @ ELTIM audio BV, Europe's main supplier of original MOREL drive units and related products. for 29.95€. Look also at post http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-222.html#post2906567 from Gillib. He used it to mount a NCore400 and SMPS600. Personally I'm also considering (99,9% sure) to buy 5 of these cases.
Thanks. I've now pretty much completed one design using the Schaeffer parts which is a long and slmi design but will also try a wider and shallower design (basically different orientations of the SMPS600). They look good (to me) but have worked out very expensive for just two units. However they are also serving as drawings to show an engineer friend (when I seem him) who might be able to help as well as being worthwhile for me to properly get my head around clearances etc.
There is also a guy I've been chatting with privately who is looking at possibly making a CNC design which could be good and should also be a reasonable cost.
Another option for me is to buy a box such as the ebay ones and design/buy new face and/or rear plates for it.
The way I see it is that the internals are not cheap so the case should look professional and as the internals are also pretty much plug and play, it is more the case that is a project for me. That said, if I was looking at it purely from a functional perspective I would use a simple box with the power and switch at one end and the connections at the other which is probably what I should do given I will be placing them next to my speakers.
It seems that 0,1% just has happened. I bought 5 of these cases: A18 Black Full Aluminium DAC Case Enclosure | eBay
It saves me a lot of drilling (now only for the XLR input) and the dimensions of the casing are just small enough to fit 5 cases in my spare space of my A/V cupboard.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A18-Black-F...026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1b9cf352
- Status
- Not open for further replies.