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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

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Old 29th May 2011, 12:18 PM   #31
teamacc is offline teamacc  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savage440 View Post
... The T4 has distortion or coloration. ...
I think you forgot to type a "no"
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Old 30th May 2011, 12:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamacc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by savage440 View Post
... The T4 has distortion or coloration. ...
I think you forgot to type a "no"
At least the weaker Tripaths are commonly known to distort a bit compared to the solid states. Thatīs the main reason why the solid state group does not take the Tripaths serious. Member savage could be influenced by such statements and articles before. It makes for me also not sense that a 1000 $ Onkyo amp should distort or make coloration ... For example in the speakers properties a description like coloration stands more for "alive" (high sensitivity fullranges) and he just has taken over this description for the T4 because of the typically "alive" character of the Tripaths.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDealer View Post
At least the weaker Tripaths are commonly known to distort a bit compared to the solid states. Thatīs the main reason why the solid state group does not take the Tripaths serious. Member savage could be influenced by such statements and articles before. It makes for me also not sense that a 1000 $ Onkyo amp should distort or make coloration ...
Some weaker Tripath distorted the freq response because of a sort of an "error" in the output stage in some TA2024 or TA2020 (I don't remember where I read this, I thought in TNT audio site, but I checked without success...sorry), but in other Tripath models (TK2050) and the slightly different ST Microelectronics "DDX" amp chips, the sound should not be coloured at all...I think so because the signal remains digital (pulse width modulated) until the low pass filter.

There's no reason to think that a 1000$ linear amp, only because of the cost, doesn't put some colouration in sound...I think that with linear technology is a lot easier the introduction of some parasitic filtering effect.

A couple of weeks ago I listened my T4 in a friend of mine system made by:
  • Tannoy system 8 speakers (at 8ohm, so hi and low bridged)
  • Nad 314 (2x35W amp)
  • Nad cd player (don't remember model) with Creative Extigy external sound blaster as DAC/ miniMac/ Nad with internal DAC

A quick report:
  1. Nad amp+ miniMac as source= weak and a bit dark sound
  2. Nad amp+ Nad cd player with internal DAC=more power and clearer sound
  3. T4 amp + Nad cd player with internal DAC =even more power (risk of damaging Tannoy, at T4 full power, even if CD player output doesn't reach 1,7V maximum T4 input- no audible distortion at all), better transient, holography, focus. On the other side treble became harsh, bass a bit weak and not so present, mid hided by bad treble.
  4. T4 + Nad cd player with Creative Extigy as DAC= in 3 words "flat frequency response" , in System 8 range...:-). Every thing sounded at its place, solid bass, natural treble and mid. In Telarc super CD test the gun shot was astonishingly very realistic!! I've never heard such a quick transient response..
Of course everything IHMO...

My friend told me that I would had to spend at least 1000/1500€ to get such a good sounding amp..(he has a decennial experience with hifi).
But I've spent 1/10 (about 150-160€)

About hum issue, when I replied to TheDealer the last time, I didn't try to disable the AUX (line-in) channel on my good old Extigy....with all inputs disabled I really can't hear any noise coming from speakers staying about 50cm near one of them (also consider special care for shielding-read my post at the beginning of this thread-, even if I don't know whether is it important. However I put my cellular phone directly on the heatsink during a call, and I didn't hear the minimum noise).

I also read in this forum that a man from Iceland uses a T1 (or T2) in a recording studio...

Just my 2cents...

Last edited by Centvrion; 2nd June 2011 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 5th June 2011, 03:25 AM   #34
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a noob question: Which Connexelectronic smps module is best for T4?
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Old 5th June 2011, 08:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by squatt3r View Post
a noob question: Which Connexelectronic smps module is best for T4?
Ha. 'Best' is a very dangerous requirement in audio circles as you can always get increasingly minimal and probably inaudible gains for ever increasing expenditure :-)

That said the SMPS-R range from Connex look to be their best offerings. 'Best', assuming no constraints, would be the SMPS800R model as this is the strongest. There again the smallest SMPS300R should be fine in a domestic setting for anything except dedicated power hungry sub requirements. I am thinking of using the T4 paired with the middle range SPMS500R myself, which I judge to be overkill but a moderately sensible amount of overkill.

Actually it is in my context a stupid amount of overkill, as it will be an active project with 3xSMPS500R driving 3xT4 and I know I will only be putting out about 5W most of the time. But refer back to my first comment :-)
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Old 9th June 2011, 02:11 PM   #36
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Class "D" has little to do with digital (some control circuit might be digital but this don't define the class of an amp), but the signal remains analog.

Class "D", because of A, B, C, D, ...., just the western alfabetical progression.

Some more infos:
Class D Amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Best
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Old 9th June 2011, 03:30 PM   #37
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Thank you portomomo;
of course finally signal (and in the case of T4 and other Hifimediy amps) is an analog signal.. but these amps are an evolution of class D (don't know how much deeply evoluted).

http://www.metatech.com.hk/product/a...hite_paper.pdf

What I've understood (in few words) is that signal is converted into PWM signal (so not relly digital, nor analog), than amplified through a digitally controlled class D amplifier, than reconverted to analog by final filters.
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Old 9th June 2011, 04:43 PM   #38
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Interesting. I didn't knew this particular design but I ASAP will have a look at the link.

BTW iI've found another similar design by NAD, relying on the same idea:

NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier (TAS 198) | AVguide

On page 5 & 6 there is a description of the functioning. But, before going
totally offtopic I will find some time to deepen my understanding of the technology.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 9th June 2011, 04:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
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... I will find some time to deepen my understanding of the technology.
I also hope so...! I want to learn something more, but in this period I'm very busy...
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Old 11th June 2011, 01:23 PM   #40
ctkhaw is offline ctkhaw  Malaysia
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I am currently using a TA2020 amp (20watt) to power my ZEN open baffle speakers and even at 10 o'clock volume, it is already quite loud.

I am thinking of upgrading to a T1 but currently is out of stock.

If I use a T4, I am wondering whether it would be an overkill....... and whether any compatibility issue would arise.

Any comments/advice would be appreciated
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