Behringer Class D for less

[sampleaccurate]

Upon searching around for class D power for a low price I stumbled upon Behingers latest line of amps. 230 WRMS at 1% into 4 ohms, 20-20K +0/-1dB, $219 for a 1 space 10 lb. rackmount amp. "Class H 2-tier".

From reading the Behringer brochure they flat out say they didn't invent the technology. It's obvious they license it from someone, and I doubt it's Phillips although I could be wrong. They make an entire line of different wattage class D amps. This is just one. You can try it and send it back within 45 days for a full refund if you no like.

Behringer Europower EPQ450 Professional 460-Watt Light Weight Stereo Power Amplifier W/ ATR - BananasMusic.com

and this MONSTER!

http://www.bananasmusic.com/productdetail.asp/PID_8317

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted by sampleaccurate

From reading the Behringer brochure they flat out say they didn't invent the technology. It's obvious they license it from someone, and I doubt it's Phillips although I could be wrong. They make an entire line of different wattage class D amps. This is just one. You can try it and send it back within 45 days for a full refund if you no like.

Class G and Class H are variations of Class AB. Both are very similar and to a certain extent can be used interchangeably. Hitachi sold Class G amps in the early 1980's. In both cases, they use power rail switching and typically will have several rail voltages that change dynamically based on load requirements. Class H takes it a bit further in that the rail voltage varies in a stepless fashion rather than having a fixed set of specific voltages available. It's an attempt to increase the efficiency of a conventional Class AB design. It's difficult to say for sure, but I suppose it's possible that the Behringer's are Class D rather than AB but with the Class G/H power supply innovation, although I'm not sure that the Class designation is properly applied if that's the case.

[Lee in Montreal]

I'd be curious to hear how these type of 20lbs/1000w amps handle deep bass at high volume. "Back in the days" you needed huge capacitors to store energy just for that, and a big/heavy power supply to feed them.

[sendler]

The only way to know is to try one. I wouldn't expect much. I bought a Behringer A500 and it is the worst sounding amp I have ever had home. Very opaque and congested. I would try the Hifimediy T3 with a MeanWell SMPS. The Tripath TC2000 chip is the best sounding amp driver available right now and the MeanWell SMPS sounds better than my best linear supply.

[sampleaccurate]

Originally Posted by Johnny2Bad

It's difficult to say for sure, but I suppose it's possible that the Behringer's are Class D rather than AB but with the Class G/H power supply innovation, although I'm not sure that the Class designation is properly applied if that's the case.

They are class D amps using class H modulation of the rails. The spec sheet explicitly states the outputs are class D. I think there’s a lot of confusion over how to apply the class designation when using a class H topology for the power rails and another topology (like AB or D) along with that. But no doubt the outputs are class D (not sure what subclass though).

The two biggest selling points are low output impedance (damping factor over 200 for what they claim is awesome bass) and ultra high slew rate, along with efficiency of course.

I agree in general about the quality of Behringer. I own one amp I use for a subwoofer amp, and for that it sounds fine, but for full range use I wouldn't recommend it.

I've had the opportunity to use (I mean really use, not just quickly try out) a lot of Behringer stuff, mostly rack mount audio processors, not amps. Most is semi-pro quality at best, even the stuff they call "professional". But occasionally they surprise you and make something that really sounds good.

Once I get my Hypex amp completed (UcD180ST and dual Meanwell 48 volt 350 watt SMPS) I’ll order a Behringer and give it a comparison. If I don’t like it I’ll send it back. Shipping isn’t very expensive for a 10lb amp. I’ve never had an issue sending something I didn’t like back from the places I do business with.

[sampleaccurate]

Semi-Correction:

The amps in this lineup aren't all the same topology.

EPQ304 - class D 65 w/ch
EPQ450 - class AB 155 w/ch
EPQ900 - class H 274 w/ch
EPQ1200 - class AB 425 w/ch
EPQ2000 - class H 2-tier 700 w/ch

So at least two of them are class AB. I have to question how accurately the sales guys who drew up these brochures got the specs.

[Johnny2Bad]

For what it's worth, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to amplifier classes; A, B, AB, C, D, E & F. Half of those are not useful in HiFi.

So, personally, I would just consider these either AB or D, and leave the rest to the marketing department. Sometimes it's important to remind ourselves that there is engineering, and there is marketing and a gulf between them. So, I wouldn't necessarily disregard the product itself over a few over-the-top brochures, but try to evaluate it on it's own merits.

[antbom]

Originally Posted by sampleaccurate

Once I get my Hypex amp completed (UcD180ST and dual Meanwell 48 volt 350 watt SMPS) I’ll order a Behringer and give it a comparison.

Please could you specify which model of Meanwell are you using with the ucd180? Thank You!
Antonio

[antbom]

Originally Posted by antbom

Please could you specify which model of Meanwell are you using with the ucd180? Thank You!
Antonio

Found the answer in the "Hypex UcD180HG HxR or 400HG HxR ? " thread. Thank You anyway!

[sampleaccurate]

Originally Posted by Johnny2Bad

For what it's worth, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to amplifier classes; A, B, AB, C, D, E & F. Half of those are not useful in HiFi.

So, personally, I would just consider these either AB or D, and leave the rest to the marketing department. Sometimes it's important to remind ourselves that there is engineering, and there is marketing and a gulf between them. So, I wouldn't necessarily disregard the product itself over a few over-the-top brochures, but try to evaluate it on it's own merits.

I'm a EE and I read "Spectrum" which is the IEEE magazine, and Bruno Putzeys was featured this month in a short article about how class D amps have taken audio by storm in 2010 and how Putzeys worked for Philips, looked at one of the chips a group of 4 senoir engineers had worked on for over a year, wasn't impressed with it, and with permission of his managers took 4 weeks to build a superior circuit from cheap discrete parts, and also about how he left Philips to work for Hypex taking some of his patents with him. That got me really looking at the technology and the Hypex products, and I was astonished at just how many other manufacturers have class D or similar offerings. One thing is for certain - class AB amps (as we know them) in consumer products will be almost gone within a very short period of time.

What I also found very interesting is that Putzeys started out designing and building tube amps as a kid, considering them superior to solid state (I build tube amps). Now he considers class D to be the best hi-fi audio amp topology.

With such a radical change in technology I wouldn't count any amp out until I both saw the specs and heard it.