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Old 18th April 2010, 06:53 PM   #1
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Default Ultimate sounded Class D for diy without custom made IC's like Tripath TA2020

I note, that the most diy projects use only integrated solutions like follow pics:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/k...ro_tripath.jpg
http://www.russianelectronics.ru/fil...PA3122D2-1.jpg
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/13/72/79/14/tpa10.jpg
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/images/tc-irs2092.jpg
High Performance Class-D Speaker / Headphone Amplifier Series | Audio ICs | ICs | ROHM CO., LTD.

but unfortunately no discrete ( I would better say "quasi discrete") solutions with Op-Amps and comparators I can find here with explicit analysing;

What is therefore the reason?
Is there no "Nelson Pass" or "John Curl" of Class-D designs (easy design, very high switching rate arround 10 MHz and good to understand circuit)?

Follow topology is more for beginners but not for top class requirements:
Selfoscillating class D amplifier

The topologies about this threads are good suited base for start own developement projects because the sound quality reach a certainly quality level:
newclassd: the better class d amp?
(PDF pics about post #23)
LC Audio ZAPpulse 800XE ..
TC Electronics Switch amp
http://www.audiopower.it/index.php?o...d=56&Itemid=53
and
L C Audio Technology / ZapPulse 800XE
but no detailled schematic diagram and circuit description is to be discover.

The only discrete schematic, that is to find here, is my own created from ICEPOWER, unfortunately not finished:
Sanyo/B&O Icepower 200AC Rev.D, schematic about rev. engin., not complete finished

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 18th April 2010 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 18th April 2010, 10:07 PM   #2
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Does the use of a mosfet driver fall under "quasi discrete" or "integrated solution" by your definition?

If it's close enough to "quasi discrete" for you, then this thread is a good read........

UcD like topology amp.
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:19 AM   #3
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If you get a good understanding of the UCD circuit topology and how the amplifier works, you'll find it is easy to design one using a high-speed comparator for the front end, followed by a suitable MOSFET gate driver chip to drive the output FETs. There's enough information on this site, and on other websites for you to get a thorough understanding of the circuit operaration.
Don't even think about trying to switch at 10MHz. With a post-filter NFB architecture like UCD, anything over 400kHz doesn't offer any advantages and has the disadvantage in that the quiescent current starts increasing.
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:43 AM   #4
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Is Mr. Bruno Putzey the "Nelson Pass" of Class D concepts?

"universal Class-D" was a good advice - I will check Mr. Bruno Putzeys papers and UcD as keyword in the next time
some examples here:

http://www.nxp.com/documents/user_manual/UM10155.pdf
http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/...WhitePaper.pdf
....::: HIFIAkademie.de :::....
PSW Recording Forums: Bruno Putzeys

How many other such principles are there for discrete Class D concepts (I am complete new in Class D and don't know all the colloquial terms for the good known various class D topologies - sorry).

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 19th April 2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 19th April 2010, 12:19 PM   #5
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People had been looking at ways to provide a stable post-filter feedback class-d amplifier for some time. When Bruno's paper appeared a few years ago, many people (including me) thought: "Oh yes, that's the way to do it, why on earth didn't I think of that".
Like so many good ideas, the solution was very simple, and very elegant in engineering terms. It just hadn't been obvious before Bruno thought of it.

Simple class-D amps split between open-loop designs and closed loop designs.
The closed-loop designs split between pre-filter NFB and post-filter NFB and most are self-oscillating. (This is for DIY designs. Many commercial IC designs use pre-filter NFB with a clocked architecture).
UCD-style designs dominate the post-filter types, but there are a number of pre-filter self-oscillating NFB topologies. Have a look at the IRAUDAMP designs from International Rectifier to see one way of doing this, but there are both hysteresis and phase shift oscillator techniques in use.
It's a fascinating subject! I suggest you get a SPICE package and learn how to use it if you really want to start investigating it in detail.
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Old 1st July 2010, 09:27 PM   #6
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Default Most popular Class-D Modules without special IC's

1) Audiopower "DPA-600"
Audio Power, Digital Audio Equipment
Digital Amplifiers

2) L C Audio Technology "ZapPulse 800XE"
L C Audio Technology / ZapPulse 800XE
LC Audio ZAPpulse 800XE ..
TC Electronics Switch amp

3) DEXA Technologies ApS (newClassD) Lars Clausen
NewClassD Front Page
New Module by Lars Clausen

4) Sanyo ICEPOWER
ICEpower — Our History
ICEPower Amplifiers with Bang & Olufsen
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...epower250a.pdf
http://www.semiconductor-sanyo.com/p...f_e/VOL184.pdf
Sanyo Class D High Frequency
Sanyo/B&O Icepower 200AC Rev.D, schematic about rev. engin., not complete finished

5) Bruno Putzey's Universal Class D (UcD)
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD180HG_datasheet.pdf
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD180400.pdf
www.nxp.com/documents/user_manual/UM10155.pdf (UcD version 1.00 demonstrator board, schematic)
UM10155 from NXP
发现美图:分立D类功放, - 维库电子市场网 (many schemas)
....::: HIFIAkademie.de :::....
PSW Recording Forums: Bruno Putzeys (Designer) - Dave Hecht (Master Tech) => Op amp crossover distortion (Op-Amps for UCD)
Believe the Hypex, class-D DIY amplifier - UcD, universal class-D
UcD like topology amp. (schematic by post #172)
YouTube - IRS20954

Comparable test are here:
2008 - Class D Amplifier comparasion test

Schematics still wanted from all except the universal Class-D about number 5
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Class D Audiopower DPA-600-F.jpg (73.8 KB, 2619 views)
File Type: jpg Class D ICEPOWER A250.jpg (56.9 KB, 2551 views)
File Type: jpg Class D - I C E - .jpg (12.9 KB, 2494 views)
File Type: jpg Class D IcePower STK428-640.jpg (46.7 KB, 2490 views)
File Type: jpg Class-D Hypex 400 Bottom.jpg (271.1 KB, 2486 views)
File Type: jpg Class-D Hypex 400 Top.jpg (233.8 KB, 272 views)
File Type: jpg Class-D TC el Zap Pulse 800XE component side.jpg (15.9 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg Class-D TC el Zap Pulse 800XE solder side.jpg (11.8 KB, 282 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Class-D newClassD 2006 soldersite.pdf (96.4 KB, 389 views)
File Type: pdf Class-D newClassD 2006 topview.pdf (151.0 KB, 287 views)
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Old 2nd July 2010, 04:35 PM   #7
balaboo is offline balaboo  United States
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I have also been searching for a LOONNNG time for a discrete class-D amplifier that can use standard through-hole components and at least "mid-fi". Apparently nobody in this forum wants to share a complete design, just droppings ...
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Old 4th July 2010, 11:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balaboo View Post
I have also been searching for a LOONNNG time for a discrete class-D amplifier that can use standard through-hole components and at least "mid-fi". Apparently nobody in this forum wants to share a complete design, just droppings ...
Regarded discrete designs this basic articles are of interest:
Simple Self-Oscillating Class D Amplifier with Full Output Filter Control - Bruno Putzeys
http://hypex.nl/docs/ucd_aes.pdf
Evaluation of such an Class D amp "Self-Oscillating"
http://www.nxp.com/documents/user_manual/UM10155.pdf
IRF's discrete Solutions with Demo Board:
http://www.irf.com/product-info/audi...sdtutorial.pdf

The problem with this forum is the inaccurate choice of the headline in any cases. e. g.
Success with class-d?
the actually headline must be follow: "discrete self oscillating designs vs. other" instead "Success with Class D? "

So one must check most of all subjects by the file "Class D" (more than 3500 in the meantime). Perhaps one of the member can do this complete. I am shure, that there is much more to find concerning discrete class d design's.

I have found follow threads in this case:

discrete solution with IR2113/LM311/IRFP460
ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets
New self oscillating post filter feedback topologies
New self oscillating post filter feedback topology...
Easy discrete topology
Interesting schematic
What is Class D ?
Project Web -- Archive
schematics, link overview
Help Class D Class D Class D
self oscillating designs vs. other
Success with class-d?
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Old 5th July 2010, 02:15 PM   #9
balaboo is offline balaboo  United States
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Thank you, I am familiar with those designs - the NXP design would be my firts-choice, but I was told that the schematic has errors; the IRF still requires you to use a dedicated controller chip.
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Old 6th July 2010, 11:43 AM   #10
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Can I ask why a discrete version would be better! It goes against a lot of design technigues required for Class d amps (effectively a modulated SMPS). A discrete design would be more spread out introducing parasitic inductances amongs other gremlins IMO.
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