V-bro et al - this is a thread about the hifimediy 2050 implementations. At one point, Arjen Helder wandered in here and started promoting his stuff. In the past month or so, people have started dragging Sure and generic practice stuff in.
There are other threads for that stuff - can we please stay on topic?
Thanks.
There are other threads for that stuff - can we please stay on topic?
Thanks.
Hey, Alkasar, have you seen T4 specs somewhere other than the preview stuff on Nick's website? Would love to see 'em.
I would love to see them in detail tooHey, Alkasar, have you seen T4 specs somewhere other than the preview stuff on Nick's website? Would love to see 'em.
We have to guess from some Hifimediy posts. It's T1 topology with STA517B power chip, plus some more stuff. Sounds like a promising powerful amp for 8ohm speakers. Hope he gets back soon from new year hollidays
About the other comment: as long as we talk technical and not commercial, i think it is valuable to discuss relevant ideas from similar Sure or 41Hz amps. This thread is not in the vendor section
I'm sure relays click on power-on; I must check if they do it also on power-off (I was paying more attention to speaker pop, so I did not realize).
I will post it later when back home
The problem continues.
I can hear relays going on/off, but pop noise continues on boths amps (T1 & T2) when disconecting.
I'm afraid my tweeters will not last too long if I can not solve this
V-bro, I don't wish to be rude, but here's "the problem".
"The T1 and T2 boards should have pretty similar circuitry on the board, but I don't know these amps at all...."
By your own admission you are not familiar with these implementations, so you are just rehashing general Tripath stuff that has been hashed and hashed again already in many places. You are also doling out advice. Have you read the thread?
I keep seeing activity here, and want to know what hifimediy and initial users have to say about new implementations that will be released any day - which IMHO is what this particular thread is for. But that is not is what it is being used for.
"The T1 and T2 boards should have pretty similar circuitry on the board, but I don't know these amps at all...."
By your own admission you are not familiar with these implementations, so you are just rehashing general Tripath stuff that has been hashed and hashed again already in many places. You are also doling out advice. Have you read the thread?
I keep seeing activity here, and want to know what hifimediy and initial users have to say about new implementations that will be released any day - which IMHO is what this particular thread is for. But that is not is what it is being used for.
It's not exactly like I'm some kind of noob saying silly things now, am I?
There is no need at all to thoroughly know these amps to be able to post about them here, as goes for anyone. If you wish for a private conversation then don't participate to a worldwide open forum.
I am very well aware of the functioning of the circuits on these amps, just don't know the exact details of these particular models. If someone would point me to the circuit drawing I could actually go all into detail about them.
I was just being honest saying I don't know these amps at all....
There is no need at all to thoroughly know these amps to be able to post about them here, as goes for anyone. If you wish for a private conversation then don't participate to a worldwide open forum.
I am very well aware of the functioning of the circuits on these amps, just don't know the exact details of these particular models. If someone would point me to the circuit drawing I could actually go all into detail about them.
I was just being honest saying I don't know these amps at all....
The problem continues.
I can hear relays going on/off, but pop noise continues on boths amps (T1 & T2) when disconecting.
I'm afraid my tweeters will not last too long if I can not solve this
Don't worry too much about your tweeters going bad from the pop.
There is probably not enough delay in the shut down circuit of the relay, this can be just a simple matter of changing a resistor value. Or a capacitor.
Maybe someone has a circuit drawing of this part of the circuit of the amp? I know Sure has all their schematics on line...
Would love to help getting this solved.
Hey thanks Col!!
Okay, here's what we've got:
The turn on delay is achieved by C40, which charges slowly due to the resistance of R34
Whenever something goes wrong and the Tripath IC detects this either the FAULT or HMUTE pin will pull Q2 down and the speaker relays will be shut off.
The TC2000/2001/2002 MUTE function is operated by a voltage supervisor, which will unmute the amp when the 5V is present. Further shutting on/off the amp is done a switch operating relay K1, which then just applies VCC to the whole circuit.
If you want silent turn on/off it is imparative to turn the speaker relays on delayed and turn them off quicker than the 5V can fall. Seems to me the buffer capacitors of this amp keep the 5V alive too long, longer than the shut off timing of the speaker relays.
I would be interested if the green LED D11 turns on/off along with the relays you hear toggling...
It can also be a case of a properly functioning amplifier, but something external is wrong creating a fault situation which makes the TC2000/2001/2002 trip as it should.
It is a bit hard to tell exactly what is happening before making a couple of measurements. Like the status of FAULT and HMUTE in relation to the relays toggling. And the mere rail voltage monitored during these happenings.
There are a LOT of things the Tripath chipset is monitoring that can make FAULT and HMUTE change status. Like overcurrent, over/undervoltage, short circuits etc.etc.
Okay, here's what we've got:
The turn on delay is achieved by C40, which charges slowly due to the resistance of R34
Whenever something goes wrong and the Tripath IC detects this either the FAULT or HMUTE pin will pull Q2 down and the speaker relays will be shut off.
The TC2000/2001/2002 MUTE function is operated by a voltage supervisor, which will unmute the amp when the 5V is present. Further shutting on/off the amp is done a switch operating relay K1, which then just applies VCC to the whole circuit.
If you want silent turn on/off it is imparative to turn the speaker relays on delayed and turn them off quicker than the 5V can fall. Seems to me the buffer capacitors of this amp keep the 5V alive too long, longer than the shut off timing of the speaker relays.
I would be interested if the green LED D11 turns on/off along with the relays you hear toggling...
It can also be a case of a properly functioning amplifier, but something external is wrong creating a fault situation which makes the TC2000/2001/2002 trip as it should.
It is a bit hard to tell exactly what is happening before making a couple of measurements. Like the status of FAULT and HMUTE in relation to the relays toggling. And the mere rail voltage monitored during these happenings.
There are a LOT of things the Tripath chipset is monitoring that can make FAULT and HMUTE change status. Like overcurrent, over/undervoltage, short circuits etc.etc.
I'm almost sure that green LED goes on/off along with the relays "click", but I will pay attention later when back home and let you know.
FYI:
- There is NOT turn-on "pop noise" (only pops on turn-off)
- When switching off amps, I can hear the relays "click" after the "pop noise"
Well, you could perhaps put it on the test bench with some cheapo speakers and remove either R12 or R32 one by one to test if the relays are toggling by the controls of the TC2000 chip. Or carefully measure the voltage present on these resistors on the end that is connected to the TC chip. Note that the datasheet of this chip describes whether these pins should be high or low status. (5V or zero)
I do reckon it's not K1 that is toggling on/off, because that would simply mean the power supply is failing. Or in the worst case something would be wrong with either the switch or K1 itself.
Most likely the K2 and K3 speaker relays are toggling on/off and these are controlled by several things. So you should determine which is the responsible factor first.
If it is controlled by the TC2000 pins then it is possible that something is not connected right, or something on the board is failing causing the TC chip to go in to fault/mute mode.
It could be a part failing in the circuit posted above... which would be determined if the error still occurs without the TC chip having control over it (after measuring or removing R12/R32)
Work systematically and exclude things one by one and the error will reveal itself finally...
I read in your earlier post that it only occurs during shut down, and that is logical because the delay is properly implemented on turn on, which makes the relays click on safely after the amp has awakened. It's the turn off of the relays that goes too slow and/or the amp muting too fast that creates the turn off pop...
As I said before the amp ALWAYS pops, it's just solved here by connecting/disconnecting the speakers well after/before the amp has awakened. Then another solution I prefer most is making the amp pop free, which can be done with the right type of input capacitor.... But I am sorry to say there are commercial parties dependent on this information and I will not reveal such a thing in front of the whole world. It takes quite some time to investigate such a (seemingly simple) thing, months if not years....
I do reckon it's not K1 that is toggling on/off, because that would simply mean the power supply is failing. Or in the worst case something would be wrong with either the switch or K1 itself.
Most likely the K2 and K3 speaker relays are toggling on/off and these are controlled by several things. So you should determine which is the responsible factor first.
If it is controlled by the TC2000 pins then it is possible that something is not connected right, or something on the board is failing causing the TC chip to go in to fault/mute mode.
It could be a part failing in the circuit posted above... which would be determined if the error still occurs without the TC chip having control over it (after measuring or removing R12/R32)
Work systematically and exclude things one by one and the error will reveal itself finally...
I read in your earlier post that it only occurs during shut down, and that is logical because the delay is properly implemented on turn on, which makes the relays click on safely after the amp has awakened. It's the turn off of the relays that goes too slow and/or the amp muting too fast that creates the turn off pop...
As I said before the amp ALWAYS pops, it's just solved here by connecting/disconnecting the speakers well after/before the amp has awakened. Then another solution I prefer most is making the amp pop free, which can be done with the right type of input capacitor.... But I am sorry to say there are commercial parties dependent on this information and I will not reveal such a thing in front of the whole world. It takes quite some time to investigate such a (seemingly simple) thing, months if not years....
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Hi, I'm back finally.sorry to be later here .
Can you tell me the connection of signal inputs? Or you'd better turn the potmeter on T1/T2 down to ZERO volume and try again for point 3.
And we will discuss that again later
Hi, I'm back finally.sorry to be later here .
Can you tell me the connection of signal inputs? Or you'd better turn the potmeter on T1/T2 down to ZERO volume and try again for point 3.
And we will discuss that again later
Signal inputs come directly from a miniDSP system.
I did test with both pots T1 & T2 down to zero: NO pop in that situation.
so I believe that the audio source causes the noise. I think you may want to find another source and try again.
Audio source is as follows:
Laptop -> USB-dac -> miniDSP -> T1&T2
The same exactly setup where amps where tested when I received them... and there were no pop noises then
The only changes is that now is all almost assembled.
Anyway, I'll try with another laptop and see if it gets better.
Tks!
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