New TK2050 board

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Yeah, great service from Steinar:)
About the temperature...I made this thought: if you look at the datasheet of these DDX amps, efficiency increases up to about 90% after 5-6W; if you use lower power (=lower volume) probably the chip gets hotter...I've noticed this yesterday night listening to T4 at very low volume: the heatsink became hotter than the day before, at higher volume...
just my 2c

No, it shouldn't. This loss is mainly in the output filter inductors, not really the output stage chip...
 
hi hifimediy & all,
I'm about to pull the trigger to get T2 10000uf. The main reason why I pick this model is because it can simply connected to a transformer. I didn't opt for SMPS as I want the final product to be put on a small chassis (wifey hates huge metal boxes). It will be paired with Quad 11L (6ohm 86db), normal listening level. How many watt approx will I get with 6 ohm ?

I need suggestion for which following tansformer that I can find in my country works best for T2 (all are R-core, almost impossible to find toroids here) :

18V(2.4A)×2+15V(0.45A)×2 100VA
20V(2A)×2 100VA
24V(1.8A)×2+12V(0.5A)×2 100VA
20V(4.75A)×2+12V(0.4A)×2 200VA

thanks in advance...
 
comparisons?

I've been searching for which amps to use for a my speakers at holisticAudio.com. I'm considering offering some self-powered versions.

Since my Virtue amps do really well driving 3 to 4 ohm loads, I'm evaluating between the Sure, the Helder and possibly the Hifimediy amps to see if I can come up with anything that sounds as good but for less money. I'm looking primarily into versions using the 2000/2050 combo although I'm open to other options like the STA517

So far, running off the RedWine Audio LFP BLack Lightning supply (which is waay better than the switchers I've heard so far) both the Sure and Helder are very good, and....I think I like the sound of the Sure a little better than the Helder (on stock units, no mods yet).

BUT the Helder runs much, much cooler than the Sure. Another way of putting it is maybe the Sure is running too hot. It could very well be a function of layout, as that makes a big difference both for sound and for HF emissions. Anyone here know why the Sure is running so much hotter?

I'm wondering whether anyone here has had a chance to cross-compare between these units and the Hifimediy both for sonics and operating temp. Also, ease of modding is important, in this dept maybe the hifimediy is the best?

For me the temp issue is an important one for long-term reliability, especially if planning for possible production. But I don't want to settle for sonics that are not the best in class.

Does anyone here have comments that could help with this?
 
BUT the Helder runs much, much cooler than the Sure. Another way of putting it is maybe the Sure is running too hot. It could very well be a function of layout, as that makes a big difference both for sound and for HF emissions. Anyone here know why the Sure is running so much hotter?

There have been speculations, but no real conclusions about this that I have seen. I have been laughing my butt off seeing the solutions people came up with, heatsinks the size of a truck. There can be many reasons for it to grow so hot, but I never really took the time to investigate it either.

Helder's and Hifimediy boards are obviously better. Only thing I would change about them is the ridiculously large input capacitors, this can only lead to oscillations and unwanted high frequency feedback, which in turn often leads to degradation of the sound.

I would also ditch the potentiometer and take a decent preamp and attenuator instead.
 
Helder's and Hifimediy boards are obviously better. Only thing I would change about them is the ridiculously large input capacitors, this can only lead to oscillations and unwanted high frequency feedback, which in turn often leads to degradation of the sound.
Helder´s TP2020 monoblocks cannot reach the price/value ratio of hifimediy products. The T2 is in my point of view the top reliable product of hifimediy.
The bigger and more expensive T4 I recently tested made in my case noises and light ground hum while the T2 is much more silent and no ground hum. First I thought the T4 Inputs should not be connected with this white plastic plug but I used the same plug also for T2.

For the inputs caps I can only say that I am using the bigger one with the 10000 nF and supply it with SMPS even though the 4000 nF is recommended for SMPS. You maybe know that hifimediy offers two versions with different input caps.
I am quite pleased with the result BUT what would you suggest regarding a total different input cap ? Makes it sense for example to invest into a much smaller one (even smaller than 4000) with better discharge values ? On the other side the capacity of the SMPS cap(s) should be also regarded in this change, or not ? I noticed a markable difference changed to a former 600 $ expensive SMPS from Nemic Lambda.

I am nearly sure with my humble electonic experiences, that the combination of the build in caps in a SMPS and the input caps should be well calculated.

I would also ditch the potentiometer and take a decent preamp and attenuator instead.

I really tend to invest into a better and more comfortable Vol. Control.
Is this O.K. ?
MV02 4Way Motorized Remote Volume Control Input KIT - eBay (item 260720330682 end time May-11-11 02:41:43 PDT)

or should I better move to a LM2311 set ? The problem is that I have to cut a new frame into the case to match the digital display :confused:
Upgrade PGA2311 Stero Remote Volume Controller Preamp | eBay

Any suggestions would be welcome ...
 
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I really tend to invest into a better and more comfortable Vol. Control.
Is this O.K. ?
MV02 4Way Motorized Remote Volume Control Input KIT - eBay (item 260720330682 end time May-11-11 02:41:43 PDT)

or should I better move to a LM2311 set ? The problem is that I have to cut a new frame into the case to match the digital display :confused:
Upgrade PGA2311 Stero Remote Volume Controller Preamp | eBay

Any suggestions would be welcome ...
Take a look at Connexelectronic SMPS as well : small form factor, high power, low EMI.

You obviouly look for a remote ;)

- ALPS Rk27 series, aka Blue beauty, (those used on T1-alps) are really good potentiometer

- a ladder stepped attenuator is supposed to be even better (I have one with smd resistors from Valab). I never could hear a difference with an ALPS blue but I like the feeling of the steps :p

- the kit you mention with motorized pot uses ALPS rk16 series, cheaper but not as well manufactured as rk27. RK27 exists also motorized, but afaik, no kit available on ebay. They are bigger, so won't fit on a rk16 board.

- PGA2310 volume control chip has excellent reviews. PGA2311 is the same, but powered only 5V. Some would say the 2311 OPA will not perform as well as if powered 12V. Also take care that pga2310/2311 need low source ouput impedance (<600ohms). A modern dac with opa output will be ok, but otherwise you may need a buffer. The kit you mention has no buffer.
Also the LCD display is barely readable a 2m. Useless based on user comments. Also this kit will not remember volume at power off. It will always start at -35dB when power on, this can be very loud actually. Look for vendor USB3 on ebay for the latest version of this kit.

overall, the best pga2310 implementation I found is by Hifimediy;)
 
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Helder´s TP2020 monoblocks cannot reach the price/value ratio of hifimediy products. The T2 is in my point of view the top reliable product of hifimediy.
The bigger and more expensive T4 I recently tested made in my case noises and light ground hum while the T2 is much more silent and no ground hum. First I thought the T4 Inputs should not be connected with this white plastic plug but I used the same plug also for T2.

The T2 is recommended for 4 ohm speakers. The T1 is recommended for 8 ohm speakers. Do you consider the T1 to be similar quality to the T2?

Thanks very much for sharing your experience with the amps. It is quite helpful to those of us trying to make a choice.

It seems that many folks are having difficulties with the newer series amps. Do hope that HiFiMeDiy can eliminate these issues and carry on with the high quality reputation he has earned.

Rod
 
overall, the best pga2310 implementation I found is by Hifimediy;)

Thanks alkasar for your tips. Yes the pga2310 I also noticed but was not sure if the led display is fixed or moveable. And the remote control unit I was missing.
The ebay stuff I found cheaper when you also regard the included remote control unit.
On the other hand - if I understood right, the 2310 is supplied with 12 V ? A fine 12 V battery as supply should be best.
 
The T1 is recommended for 8 ohm speakers. Do you consider the T1 to be similar quality to the T2?

Although I have not listened to a T1 I can imagine that this could be a solid product meanwhile. As I know there were only small issues in the past with the T1 on/off switch system which should be solved meanwhile.
My T4 end opinion and review is still open. I think I have to change first the source and connection types to eliminate the noise and light hum issues.
 
That volume control kit isn't at all bad for an average amp, but for top quality it isn't really.

A ladder isn't so much different from a pot at the higher end of the scale, but as you turn it down you should definitely hear a difference. Even an ALPS blue is a total piece of crap at the beginning of the scale. Off course this isn't always a problem. Depends much on what part of the scale you use on average. My hearing tends to grow much more sensitive during the late hours, and so do the ones of my neighbours.

A good PGA chip volume control kit is also top notch quality attenuation, certainly, but there are some cheap ones that don't have the best specs. A friend of mine has a whole bunch of them and really knows much about them and he said that he always buys the cheap kits and then swaps the chip for a good quality one....
 
T2 Review after a few weeks of listening

Hi,

I've had my T2 with Meanwell now playing on and off for around 3 weeks. I have heard many Tripath chips and amps so I really know and like the sound. The TA2020 chip has been my favorite sounding chip hands down.

Ok now I have the T2 TK2050 based chip amp and it has it's own sound. I like it a lot, and it is of course is more powerful than the TA2020. It is very open and airy and has a very wide soundfield, and produces a different bass, all very good. It just lacks a little bit of the layering of the TA2020 chip amps, but still sounds great! It is probably the closest amp I've heard yet to get to the musicality and perfectly paced layering of the soundfield that the TA2020 amp lays down though. That being said after hours of listening I believe that the T2 can do even better with a different power supply than the recommended meanwell. I have already tried a different PS that didn't work out, and now have another one coming on Monday. But the potential of the T2 with the right power supply could be huge, imo!

I just ordered a T1 with the ALPS, can't wait to check out the T1!!! I also ordered another T2 with the 4700uf, the one I have now is a 10000uf model.

I report back on the new PS
 
Although I have not listened to a T1 I can imagine that this could be a solid product meanwhile. As I know there were only small issues in the past with the T1 on/off switch system which should be solved meanwhile.
My T4 end opinion and review is still open. I think I have to change first the source and connection types to eliminate the noise and light hum issues.

Thanks very much for responding. As luck would have it Tripath07 is just now ordering a T1 with Alps pot (the one I would get) so he will be able to compare the T1 & T2. Should be interesting.

Good luck in getting your T4 issues resolved.

Rod
 
Has anyone seen distortion figures on these amps T1, 2, 3 & 4. I recall someone mentioning figures for the chips but not the finished amps?

I've heard that typically Class D amps are very clean up to about their 50 or 60% power point, and then distortion starts to really rise. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks for any information you may have.

Rod
 
Hi,

Can T1/T2 uses following meanwell PS :
S-201-24 8,3A / 24VDC
S-250-24 10A / 24VDC
S-350-24 14,5A / 24VDC

They can be adjusted up to 26.4volt, very close to recommended 27volt. They're available locally, so I can avoid high shipping cost & custom tax.

Questions :
If I get the cheaper S-201 will it degrade the sound quality ?
My speaker is Quad 11L 86db 6 ohm. Which one will work better: T1 or T2. I don't think I need bigger power of T3.

thanks in advance.
 
distortion levels

Has anyone seen distortion figures on these amps T1, 2, 3 & 4. I recall someone mentioning figures for the chips but not the finished amps?

I've heard that typically Class D amps are very clean up to about their 50 or 60% power point, and then distortion starts to really rise. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks for any information you may have.

Rod

Hi Rod, the distortion for most of the Tripath based amps will be under 0.01%, usually in the 0.007%THD range through about 70 to 80% of their max output at the max rated supply voltage. And they are usually below 0.1% at about 90% of full output.

Can't comment on other class D amps such as Hypex, etc., I didn't like their sound nearly as much and did not go further with any of them.

In some cases, like the Virtue versions of the Tripath amps, for brief periods, they will actually put out over 120W RMS into a 3 ohm at a still very low distortion level, and much more before hard clipping. For this you will need a very good supply, I use the RedWine Audio LFP battery packs, and the sound is stunningly good.

Also please consider that 70W into 4 ohms is only about 1.4dB less output than 100W, it's hardly noticeable!

The other good thing about the Tripath implementations is that the distortion is usually very similar at low vs high drive levels, whereas with most amps it climbs as you go down in level.

At the prices of these Hifimediy, Helder or Sure amps you can't go wrong!
 
A good PGA chip volume control kit is also top notch quality attenuation, certainly, but there are some cheap ones that don't have the best specs. A friend of mine has a whole bunch of them and really knows much about them and he said that he always buys the cheap kits and then swaps the chip for a good quality one....

Yes, as you said it depends on your personal requirements if a high class solution should be purchased or not. I think in the diy price range it can make sense to invest 30 $ more to get a better one while you have to pay for example 300 $ more to get same feature in a finished buyable amp or a popular manufacturer.

Do you know a seller who offers good PGA kits which can be supplied by battery ? On the other hand you make conclusions about the quality of kits you never have tested. In one chinese offer I shown above I contacted the seller and wanted to know which power supply they use for their finished preamps with this kits. It seemed not to be the best quality because of chinese characters I saw on the torroidal. But is this issue just enough to make early conclusions about the quality ? Usually you are right. Most of the sellers don´t care about workmanship quality. In the main it is important just to advert: "PGA2311 - best high end". I agree full with you that the chip is not lonely responsible for the end result ...

I think I make a risk purchase :) with gambling money and order next time a cheap pga2311 kit. That because I have 2x6 V AC extra available on my torroidal.
 
Has anyone seen distortion figures on these amps T1, 2, 3 & 4. I recall someone mentioning figures for the chips but not the finished amps?

I've heard that typically Class D amps are very clean up to about their 50 or 60% power point, and then distortion starts to really rise. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks for any information you may have.

Rod
search this topic for T2 board distorsion measurements by Hifimediy. Post #712
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/164274-new-tk2050-board-72.html#post2296764
 
Hi,


My speaker is Quad 11L 86db 6 ohm. Which one will work better: T1 or T2. I don't think I need bigger power of T3.

thanks in advance.

I think you are sure that these are 6 Ohms. For the power recommendations of bookshelf speakers it is usually more power needed than for stand speakers. And 86 dB is not the best efficiency. To produce correct and powerful bass out from small cabinets you should go for the powerful models.

I would look for the Hifimediy TA3020 board in your case. But this board is not to build up so easy like the T1 or T2. Go for more power. The T4 or the T3 could be also interesting alternatives ...
 
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