I use speakons for my projects they work really well. There are a lot of different types of cheap copies around, Iv'e tried most of them. The originals are by far the best but can be quite expensive.
If you are going to buy the cheap copies it's best to get the ones that look tapered, heres a photo:
16102009244
col.
If you are going to buy the cheap copies it's best to get the ones that look tapered, heres a photo:
16102009244
col.
I'm about to build an Aleph 4 and I've decided on using Speakons, but I've also considered including banana/screw connectors. Does that make sense or should I just omit the bananas?
How would you wire the Speakon connectors? Neutrik suggests using one 4-pin connector on the amp with a Y-cable to the speakers, but to me it makes more sense having two connectors wired so, that both connectors have both channels. (I could've sworn the Neutrik's wiring suggestions also included having two 4-pin connectors on the amp with left channel connected to channel-1 on one connector and right to 2 on the other, but that seems pointless.) On the other hand, using two 2-pin connectors (or 4-pin with only channel 1, as also suggested by Neutrik) would allow swapping the channels by switching connectors, without having to switch cables around, or worse yet, the speakers.
How would you wire the Speakon connectors? Neutrik suggests using one 4-pin connector on the amp with a Y-cable to the speakers, but to me it makes more sense having two connectors wired so, that both connectors have both channels. (I could've sworn the Neutrik's wiring suggestions also included having two 4-pin connectors on the amp with left channel connected to channel-1 on one connector and right to 2 on the other, but that seems pointless.) On the other hand, using two 2-pin connectors (or 4-pin with only channel 1, as also suggested by Neutrik) would allow swapping the channels by switching connectors, without having to switch cables around, or worse yet, the speakers.
I would put in a 4pin to each channel.
This allows you to bi-wire to a bi-wireable speaker, or to drive two drivers in separate cabinets, or to star quad the 4 wires (to a single speaker) to minimise interference coming in or going out.
If the speaker has more than one driver then a 4pin allows separate inputs to both drivers, or both halves of a split crossover.
eg.
a dual driver bass speaker requiring 200W into each 8ohm driver can be wired to two amplifiers each of 200W to 400W into 8ohms or fed from a single amplifier providing 400W to 800W into 4ohms. A 4pin covers all the bases, even allowing parallel connection and series connection of dual drivers.
This allows you to bi-wire to a bi-wireable speaker, or to drive two drivers in separate cabinets, or to star quad the 4 wires (to a single speaker) to minimise interference coming in or going out.
If the speaker has more than one driver then a 4pin allows separate inputs to both drivers, or both halves of a split crossover.
eg.
a dual driver bass speaker requiring 200W into each 8ohm driver can be wired to two amplifiers each of 200W to 400W into 8ohms or fed from a single amplifier providing 400W to 800W into 4ohms. A 4pin covers all the bases, even allowing parallel connection and series connection of dual drivers.
Last edited:
Exactly how I have mine wired up. This allows me quick A/B switching between speaker pairs, and if I so wish, biwire with separate runs for the high and low, using a single connector per wire set.
Andrew's suggestion of 4 pins per channel (doubling the contact area) is also great, it will depend on how you want to wire up the speakers.
Perhaps a compromise between the two solutions then, three 4-pin connectors:
First: Channels 1 & 2 wired to Left
Second: Channels 1 & 2 wired to Right
Third: Channel 1 wired to Left and Channel 2 to Right
This is fairly close to one of the Neutrik suggestions, with the exception that they only connect channel 1 on the first two connectors.
First: Channels 1 & 2 wired to Left
Second: Channels 1 & 2 wired to Right
Third: Channel 1 wired to Left and Channel 2 to Right
This is fairly close to one of the Neutrik suggestions, with the exception that they only connect channel 1 on the first two connectors.
I've used Speakon's for all my DIY amps.
I simply dont think you can get a much better connection.
They allow for bi-wireing and bi-amping
You can conect/disconnect with everything running full power
There is no way to short circuit anything
No fumbling in the dark to get a wire in the right hole in the screew terminal
And I sinply do not believe anyone can hear any difference (nor measure) from a Speakon connection to the most expensive WBT!!!
Buy the real stuff from Neutric, you'll be sure they work all the time, are durable as hell, and has the lowest resistance .... and no matter what the price, it's so much cheaper than any "high end, snake oil terminal thing" ...... thats my 2 cent
I simply dont think you can get a much better connection.
They allow for bi-wireing and bi-amping
You can conect/disconnect with everything running full power
There is no way to short circuit anything
No fumbling in the dark to get a wire in the right hole in the screew terminal
And I sinply do not believe anyone can hear any difference (nor measure) from a Speakon connection to the most expensive WBT!!!
Buy the real stuff from Neutric, you'll be sure they work all the time, are durable as hell, and has the lowest resistance .... and no matter what the price, it's so much cheaper than any "high end, snake oil terminal thing" ...... thats my 2 cent
Keep in mind that Speakon connectors were designed for professional applications for two primary reasons: safety and convenience. They provide a secure and stable attachment point that can be manipulated quickly without risk to equipment. They were not designed for the best sonic qualities. If you're so clumsy or dense that you can't disconnect speakers from an amplifier without turning it off or keeping the poles apart, then these are definitely your best choice. If you want the best sound, there are better options. Better grade binding posts, if manufactured with care and used with one ounce of common sense, are the second-best connectors. The best is no connector at all. You see very few (actually, none that I can think of) high-end amps which incorporate Speakon connectors, and you can be sure that it's not because of cost! I saw a post in another forum where Victor Khomenko (founder of Balanced Audio Technology, no chump outfit) stated that they sound terrible. I must admit I've never tried them myself, but I'll take Victor's word for it.
Best test if you're building your own amp: try temporarily connecting the output wires directly to the speaker cable. Then put a Speakon in the circuit to determine if it's going to be detrimental.
Peace,
Tom E
Best test if you're building your own amp: try temporarily connecting the output wires directly to the speaker cable. Then put a Speakon in the circuit to determine if it's going to be detrimental.
Peace,
Tom E
It's about magnitude of the problems!
Here is the perfect product
The Altmann "Tube-o-lator" lacquer
Ok, bad joke aside
(of course no one believes in the hearable effect of putting lacqer on the semiconductors)
I'm not saying there is may not be a difference, what I mean is that though there might be a difference, it is so small compared to all the acoustics in the system, that it simply don't matter.
All the effort should be put into the design and treatment of the listening room, and the speakers.
Very good speakers have distortion of above 1% at medium to high levels. The frequence response will in anechoic room within +- 3 db(not listening room).
Listening rooms will have dips and peaks of tens of dbs, and reflections from walls, ceiling, and floor will smear the impulse response.
What kind of distortion will the speaker connection add? 0.001 % ??
What kind of frequency diviation will the connection lead to +- 0.1 db ??
So at least for me it's all about the magnitude of the problems involved in creating the perfect sound, and where to spent my money and time the most efficient.
And the speakon connections are a very good example where the convenience and durability should win over commercial ranting of the (possible) percieved effect.
But that is probably just me bieng cynic!
Here is the perfect product
The Altmann "Tube-o-lator" lacquer
Ok, bad joke aside
(of course no one believes in the hearable effect of putting lacqer on the semiconductors)I'm not saying there is may not be a difference, what I mean is that though there might be a difference, it is so small compared to all the acoustics in the system, that it simply don't matter.
All the effort should be put into the design and treatment of the listening room, and the speakers.
Very good speakers have distortion of above 1% at medium to high levels. The frequence response will in anechoic room within +- 3 db(not listening room).
Listening rooms will have dips and peaks of tens of dbs, and reflections from walls, ceiling, and floor will smear the impulse response.
What kind of distortion will the speaker connection add? 0.001 % ??
What kind of frequency diviation will the connection lead to +- 0.1 db ??
So at least for me it's all about the magnitude of the problems involved in creating the perfect sound, and where to spent my money and time the most efficient.
And the speakon connections are a very good example where the convenience and durability should win over commercial ranting of the (possible) percieved effect.
But that is probably just me bieng cynic!
You may be a cynic, and that is a healthy attitude, but you're not being sensible. If you believe that the quality of audio can be measured only by percentages of distortion or decibels, then you need to listen more carefully and put the measuring tools away. Of course speakers produce the most distortion of any link in the audio chain, and most rooms are simply terrible at allowing a listener to hear all the money and hard work he's put into his equipment.
That, however, is no reason to believe that other areas should be ignored. Should we all use MP3 files and JVC receivers because speakers and rooms will ultimately wreck the sound anyway? Distortion is at least additive, and frequently compounded, so that it will always ADD to stages further down the chain; it can never be removed, and will likely be multiplied from one stage to another. I don't believe in a lot of audio hokum and voodoo, but I think that basic principles should be applied wherever possible. Good materials and good design can contribute a lot to the best sound. Speakons are designed for a purpose. Binding posts are designed for a different purpose.
If you need the safest and most convenient connection, Speakon is your best choice. If sonics are more important, they probably aren't the best. After all, how often do you connect/disconnect your speaker cables? If that's the most important criterion for evaluating a product, then your priorities are somewhat skewed. Whether their contribution to good or bad aspects of reproduction is significant enough to trouble you is an individual decision. To say that Speakons are the best of all connectors, however, is misleading.
Peace,
Tom E
That, however, is no reason to believe that other areas should be ignored. Should we all use MP3 files and JVC receivers because speakers and rooms will ultimately wreck the sound anyway? Distortion is at least additive, and frequently compounded, so that it will always ADD to stages further down the chain; it can never be removed, and will likely be multiplied from one stage to another. I don't believe in a lot of audio hokum and voodoo, but I think that basic principles should be applied wherever possible. Good materials and good design can contribute a lot to the best sound. Speakons are designed for a purpose. Binding posts are designed for a different purpose.
If you need the safest and most convenient connection, Speakon is your best choice. If sonics are more important, they probably aren't the best. After all, how often do you connect/disconnect your speaker cables? If that's the most important criterion for evaluating a product, then your priorities are somewhat skewed. Whether their contribution to good or bad aspects of reproduction is significant enough to trouble you is an individual decision. To say that Speakons are the best of all connectors, however, is misleading.
Peace,
Tom E
Under .009dB given a 3 Ohm minimum speaker impedance after you've used them 5000 times (Speakons are rated at .003 Ohms resistance at the end of their 5000 mate/unmate life cycle).
Hi Tom
This is of course a discussion I should never have entered. But I truely think Speakon connectors deserve some more credit, and could be used in HighEnd equipment without any degradation to the sound.
These are just very well engineered connectors, as Drew is showing with the specs.
These are not DIN connectors or Jacks or anything, that for sure do not belong on HighEnd equipment .... I'm not saying connectors don't matter, I'm just saying that these are so good that they deserve being used more in HiFi!!!
And NO, I'm not saying that other areas should be ignored. Not at all. I do think I can hear some difference between op-amps, amplifiers, CD players, etc.
What I'm pointing out is that these differences are very small compared to acoustics and speakers, and thet one should spend time and money there first.
But that becomes a too emotional and endless discussion.
What I should have said in my first post is, that I have had very good experience with Speakon, and thet I think they deserve higher popularity among the DIYs
Best regards Baldin
This is of course a discussion I should never have entered. But I truely think Speakon connectors deserve some more credit, and could be used in HighEnd equipment without any degradation to the sound.
These are just very well engineered connectors, as Drew is showing with the specs.
These are not DIN connectors or Jacks or anything, that for sure do not belong on HighEnd equipment .... I'm not saying connectors don't matter, I'm just saying that these are so good that they deserve being used more in HiFi!!!
And NO, I'm not saying that other areas should be ignored. Not at all. I do think I can hear some difference between op-amps, amplifiers, CD players, etc.
What I'm pointing out is that these differences are very small compared to acoustics and speakers, and thet one should spend time and money there first.
But that becomes a too emotional and endless discussion.
What I should have said in my first post is, that I have had very good experience with Speakon, and thet I think they deserve higher popularity among the DIYs
Best regards Baldin
Maybe I'll give them a try to learn for myself. My current amp, a very nice sounding Yamaha pro amp (P2500S--no audiophile ** there!) has Speakon output jacks. For the cost of a couple plugs, I can test it and share the results here.
I agree that far too much attention is paid to electronics. There are certainly gains to be had from careful component selection and matching, and even from the components within components (caps, especially). However, most rooms are the weak link, and better sound would be easy to obtain with only basic, inexpensive treatments. People with their priorities totally skewed obesess over what metal the plug of their power cord is plated with, but try to hear the differences in a room filled with glass, bare wood floors, and eight square corners and six parallel surfaces that completely maul the sound.
Peace,
Tom E
I agree that far too much attention is paid to electronics. There are certainly gains to be had from careful component selection and matching, and even from the components within components (caps, especially). However, most rooms are the weak link, and better sound would be easy to obtain with only basic, inexpensive treatments. People with their priorities totally skewed obesess over what metal the plug of their power cord is plated with, but try to hear the differences in a room filled with glass, bare wood floors, and eight square corners and six parallel surfaces that completely maul the sound.
Peace,
Tom E
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.