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Old 16th March 2010, 12:02 PM   #1131
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Location: Goulburn NSW
Currently I am burning in my module and I have noticed some harshness at certain frequencies, this is very mild but is probably only obvious as overall everything is so clear otherwise. I guess one would describe it as a very mild distortion as far as i can tell it is in the upper bass lower mid region. I have about 36 hrs on the module so far, but it has been burnt in at very low volume.

I am wondering if this is input caps (they have been replaced by foil ones) or perhaps the standard tank caps or something else.

It is certainly not power supply as it is 24v battery on large 18 AH cells.

Another possibility is it may be fan related as it is still on the standard supply.

Of course maybe I am hearing the limits of my iPod nano too, at the moment I can't check on another source, but i will tomorrow.

Any thoughts?
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Old 16th March 2010, 12:37 PM   #1132
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These caps are a few years old so burnt in ok. I like yourself originally bought them to be used with a T-amp ! May I ask what you ended up using ? Or any recommendations from anyone please ! Caps can get extremely expensive...
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Old 16th March 2010, 01:08 PM   #1133
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero One View Post
Currently I am burning in my module and I have noticed some harshness at certain frequencies, this is very mild but is probably only obvious as overall everything is so clear otherwise. I guess one would describe it as a very mild distortion as far as i can tell it is in the upper bass lower mid region. I have about 36 hrs on the module so far, but it has been burnt in at very low volume.

I am wondering if this is input caps (they have been replaced by foil ones) or perhaps the standard tank caps or something else.

It is certainly not power supply as it is 24v battery on large 18 AH cells.

Another possibility is it may be fan related as it is still on the standard supply.

Of course maybe I am hearing the limits of my iPod nano too, at the moment I can't check on another source, but i will tomorrow.

Any thoughts?

It's hard to tell what you're hearing, but my guess is that the Sure is revealing the limits of your IPod. IPods have a lot of nice features, but high quality sound is not one of them.

-dr_vega
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Old 16th March 2010, 01:15 PM   #1134
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbieboy View Post
These caps are a few years old so burnt in ok. I like yourself originally bought them to be used with a T-amp ! May I ask what you ended up using ? Or any recommendations from anyone please ! Caps can get extremely expensive...
I went back and forth between Dayton poly/foil and Vitamin Qs and finally settled on the Qs. Neither of these caps are available in big enough sizes. Sendler parallels the Daytons to get enough capacitance. I'm using a subwoofer below 100 Hz, so the .68 uF Vitamin Qs are big enough for me.

The Dayton poly/film caps (as opposed to their poly/foil) come big enough and are very good. I have also liked some 2uF WestCap paper-in-oils I bought on ebay.

-dr_vega
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Old 17th March 2010, 01:15 AM   #1135
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Thanks for your reply DR, a little further checking this morning seems to indicate the issue is actually a speaker resonance of some sort, actually it is coming from the port not the front of the driver so could well be a port issue.

This makes sense as the amp sounded faultless on another pair of speakers in my music room.

I do feel however that the amp could well do with some extra or better power supply caps for better bass extension.

My impressions at this point are that the amp has very high resolution, is smooth and has good separation.

It lacks strong dynamics on my test speakers but they are not very efficient but I suspect that going to air core inductors may open it up a bit.

I have some 20 AWG wire on hand, considering that this module will eventually be used for freqs from 80Hz up would this suffice or will I really need to order in 18 AWG wire.
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Old 17th March 2010, 03:13 AM   #1136
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero One View Post
Thanks for your reply DR, a little further checking this morning seems to indicate the issue is actually a speaker resonance of some sort, actually it is coming from the port not the front of the driver so could well be a port issue.

This makes sense as the amp sounded faultless on another pair of speakers in my music room.

I do feel however that the amp could well do with some extra or better power supply caps for better bass extension.

My impressions at this point are that the amp has very high resolution, is smooth and has good separation.

It lacks strong dynamics on my test speakers but they are not very efficient but I suspect that going to air core inductors may open it up a bit.

I have some 20 AWG wire on hand, considering that this module will eventually be used for freqs from 80Hz up would this suffice or will I really need to order in 18 AWG wire.
Going to air-cores gave mine a lot more clarity and a little bit more dynamics. Scott Endler reports that (as one might expect) larger, better quality wire in the air-cores sounds better. Nevertheless, I believe any air-core will sound better than most slug coils. I say go with the 20 gauge. It will be easier to wind and you'll get real benefit. Then, if you like it, you can experiment with 14, 12 or 10 gauge.

I added a 680 uF Panasonic FM tank cap to each channel on the back of the board. It helps with the large, effortless feel of the sound.

As far as dynamics go, I think speakers do more compression than we think, especially tweeters. Changing to Heil AMTs made a HUGE difference to my dynamics. Having said that, more voltage helps the board, 32 volts being the sweet spot.

-dr_vega
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Old 17th March 2010, 03:16 AM   #1137
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero One View Post
Thanks for your reply DR, a little further checking this morning seems to indicate the issue is actually a speaker resonance of some sort, actually it is coming from the port not the front of the driver so could well be a port issue.

This makes sense as the amp sounded faultless on another pair of speakers in my music room.

I do feel however that the amp could well do with some extra or better power supply caps for better bass extension.

My impressions at this point are that the amp has very high resolution, is smooth and has good separation.

It lacks strong dynamics on my test speakers but they are not very efficient but I suspect that going to air core inductors may open it up a bit.

I have some 20 AWG wire on hand, considering that this module will eventually be used for freqs from 80Hz up would this suffice or will I really need to order in 18 AWG wire.
Oh, and stick a sock in each of your speakers' ports. You'll lose a little bit of bottom end, but the rest of the bass will tighten up.

-dr_vega
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Old 17th March 2010, 04:03 AM   #1138
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Thanks DR, I just did a little test to see what effect the fan was having on the sound, it is now clear that it is adding grain to the right channel, and a little on the left, stopping the fan makes an obvious difference. I suspect that the noise of the fan gets modulated by the amp as certain freqs and volumes. Bottom line it will definitely have to be run off a separate supply and battery.

I think that dynamics will be fine in the final application, which is my OBs, these are 98 db efficient and the bass comprises of 4 by 12 inch drivers, each of the 12 drivers involved will have their own amp/channel. I can say on gainclones the system has huge dynamics, like a real live performance so I think things will be fine and of course the iPod is banished from that system, and more often I run analogue gear on it.

Overall I just want to get the modules optimised before the final build up, kinda aiming for the ultimate possible quality of sound so I am prepared to look at any small issue that might need attention, your help and that of all the others here is greatly appreciated.

Once again big thanks.
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Old 17th March 2010, 09:21 AM   #1139
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Why does that not surprise me? It is commonly known that electric motors output unwanted noise (both mechanically and electrically) I remember I did mention this about the Sure module before somewhere....It would be the first thing I would remove....
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Old 17th March 2010, 09:35 AM   #1140
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Originally Posted by v-bro View Post
Why does that not surprise me? It is commonly known that electric motors output unwanted noise (both mechanically and electrically) I remember I did mention this about the Sure module before somewhere....It would be the first thing I would remove....
Is there a particular heat-sink that anyone can recommend ?

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