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Old 14th March 2010, 11:11 AM   #1121
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfong View Post
v-bro 50 volts! You're way braver than I am. I tend to draw the line at staying below manufacturer's recommendations.
Like Kristleifur says this needs a whole bunch of different parts, but the result is stunning! You get dynamics like things are happening straight in front of you for real!

The 41hz AMP11-HV is a standard kit which is suitable for up to 52Vdc, it also uses the TC2000/2001/2002 chip, but then combined with the much more capable and modern power stage STA517B. It is still very hard to get this chip and 41hz sells them for a very fair price.

I have dared to mod a 41hz AMP4 to work up to 52Vdc and so I would dare to mod a Sure board to handle this kind of voltage, no problem. If you know what you're doing it's not half as scary...

Here's my 52Vdc AMP4:
Click the image to open in full size.

This amp is roughly 160W/ch at an 8 ohm load and 50Vdc supply voltage. The AMP11-HV is a mono amp and is roughly 275W/ch.
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Last edited by v-bro; 14th March 2010 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 15th March 2010, 08:43 PM   #1122
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That's awesome v-bro*. About to do the power input cap for my TA2050 in line with my 24v 14amp 350w PSU which should be arriving soon. Yep, I am a novice, its true... but why you using 4 of them ? I have a couple of these to hand, they look way smaller than the ones others are using on these pages. Are these of the correct rating ? Would be grateful for any feedback on specs and wiring them in.
Thanks

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Old 15th March 2010, 09:16 PM   #1123
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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They are certainly suitable, but overkill when you are using a switch mode power supply. It can even give problems for the stability of the power supply.

For a 50/60hz transformer based power supply (a standard power supply) it is almost the more the better. At the low frequency AC voltage the need for a lot of capacitance is higher because it takes more to make it steady and ripple free. A switch mode power supply on the other hand works at a high frequency and therefore needs just a little bit of capacitance to fill in the gaps.

Although, as for the capacitance for a standard power supply, there is a limit to what is sane and where it becomes insane.

Also, caps are being charged when voltage is applied to them on the turn on of the power supply. This charging goes very fast and can cause a tremendous current to flow (socalled inrush current). On this current all parts that are in line with the caps have to be able to handle that current (think about the rectifier bridge for instance) Most modern parts can handle it, but the more modern caps charge faster too (low ESR, high ripple) so you certainly need to take that into account. Keep in mind with this that this current peak is way higher than the current the device/amplifier is consuming on operation!

I like (even though I know I often exaggerate it) to beef up the power supply parts on my designs. I just have best experiences with a steady as a rock supply voltage which is as 'stiff' as can be. The advantage for your amplifier is like a good solid surface to jump from for a high jumping athlete, where many commercial power supplies are designed quite weak which is comparable with a swampy or sandy surface to jump from for the high jumping athlete. Make an educated guess from which surface the athlete jumps higher? An amplifier with a rock solid supply voltage sounds more dynamic and is more stable than an amplifier on a soggy supply voltage.

Here's a lot more on the subject:
Elliott Sound Products - Linear Power Supply Design
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Old 15th March 2010, 09:24 PM   #1124
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Barbieboy View Post
No Zero One, I've changed the input caps like everyone else, but the 'outs' seem to be a bit of a grey area... Have circled in red where they are, not sure if all the components here should be changed though.

Click the image to open in full size.
Those caps have NOTHING to do with audio, they just need to be adequate in filtering away the switching frequency. Of course the values can affect the in-band performance (in-band as in 'in the audio frequency band') Changing them for large 'Audiophile' grade caps can introduce a multitude of problems on the stability of the amp and bares an even greater risk of increasing the EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) This kind of emission is better prevented than cured. As a matter of fact they are notoriously hard to suppress once created.

Electromagnetic Interference (EMI)

The ones on the Sure board (unlike most of the components) look more than decent and adequate for the job. I would severely recommend not to change them for anything else unless you know exactly what you are doing!
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Old 15th March 2010, 11:26 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by v-bro View Post

The ones on the Sure board (unlike most of the components) look more than decent and adequate for the job. I would severely recommend not to change them for anything else unless you know exactly what you are doing!
Thanks - that IS just the kind of thing I wanted to hear !!!
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Old 15th March 2010, 11:35 PM   #1126
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Originally Posted by v-bro View Post
They are certainly suitable, but overkill when you are using a switch mode power supply. It can even give problems for the stability of the power supply.
Wow ! So with a switching PSU I don't need any caps ?! - hoorah !!! Thanks for the info.

Input caps: put Obbligatos 0.47uf on the channel driving the tweeter, and 2.0uf on the other driving the bass. Sound was not very nice, vocals were muddy and honked slightly. Just changed the 2.0uf for a cheap 0.47uf - much much better.... Which makes worried about why people are using 2.2uf's ? Surely there can not be a great difference between 2.0 and 2.2 ?
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Old 16th March 2010, 08:55 AM   #1127
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Barbieboy View Post
Wow ! So with a switching PSU I don't need any caps ?! - hoorah !!! Thanks for the info.

Input caps: put Obbligatos 0.47uf on the channel driving the tweeter, and 2.0uf on the other driving the bass. Sound was not very nice, vocals were muddy and honked slightly. Just changed the 2.0uf for a cheap 0.47uf - much much better.... Which makes worried about why people are using 2.2uf's ? Surely there can not be a great difference between 2.0 and 2.2 ?
There you go, expensive caps are certainly not always bliss!

I wanted to add that using 0.47 doesn't mean you can omit the tweeter filter! Just to warn anyone with no understanding of the matter, this value still puts out a lot of bass, but there is a definite size advantage, sure...
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Old 16th March 2010, 10:40 AM   #1128
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Ok point taken, but I am still using the Obbligato 0.47 on highs. Its just that big black Obbligato 2.0 on the bass that sucked ! so is it the make or the value that's to blame ?!
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:29 AM   #1129
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Barbieboy View Post
Ok point taken, but I am still using the Obbligato 0.47 on highs. Its just that big black Obbligato 2.0 on the bass that sucked ! so is it the make or the value that's to blame ?!
The value can be calculated, it's a simple passive line level filter. When you take the input impedance into account you can make a pretty accurate cut off frequency calculation.

I can tell you from experience that 2uF certainly isn't the cause of lack of bass. So it has got to be the make. Basically high quality caps have lower loss in general and sometimes/often this phenomenon is dominant in the higher frequency spectrum....
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Old 16th March 2010, 11:48 AM   #1130
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Originally Posted by Barbieboy View Post
Ok point taken, but I am still using the Obbligato 0.47 on highs. Its just that big black Obbligato 2.0 on the bass that sucked ! so is it the make or the value that's to blame ?!
I remember trying Obbligatos on a T-Amp some years ago and not liking the result. They were not very clear and they were a little harsh. Today I would burn them in for at least 20 hours before making a decision. Caps get noticeably better during the first 20 - 50 hours and continue to improve for 100 hours or so.

-dr_vega
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