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Old 8th March 2010, 09:07 AM   #1091
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Wow from looking at the thumbnail for a split second thought you had all those coils wired up ! Scott you are the coil champ and no mistake, what you say goes as far I am concerned. Will try and track them down here in the UK (4x Wurth XXL 7447709004 per amp).
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Old 8th March 2010, 09:38 AM   #1092
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
have a 13 amp saturation rating
Be careful with this to check the saturation frequency it was tested on!! A 13A saturation current at 100Khz can become a whole different story at 1Mhz!

Just connecting a million chokes doesn't necessarily make you an expert either... Have you done any measurements with all these chokes? It is not that hard, just connect up a tone generator and the amp on a lab supply (or PS with Ampère meter(s) in line) , make a sweep up to 20K and check the current consumption of the amplifier. When the cores hit their saturation point the current will go up rapidly.

Not to say that I'm personally an expert, but not a noob either. I have understood from application notes and personally from an expert I know that ferrite is an inherently a bad material for this purpose because it has very poor high frequency/high current capability/HF saturation. What you may find providing a "nice sound" can perhaps be mere distortion....

EDIT: Gapped ferrite is suitable by the way, the air gap improves the HF stability in a large degree:
http://www.ferroxcube.com/appl/info/gaptoroids.pdf
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Last edited by v-bro; 8th March 2010 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 8th March 2010, 10:45 AM   #1093
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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An interesting read:
http://www.sagami-elec.co.jp/file/coil_doc_02e.pdf
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Old 8th March 2010, 12:27 PM   #1094
sendler is offline sendler  United States
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Default Sagami

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Originally Posted by v-bro View Post
I have some Sagami 7G17B. They sound very nice but 10uH is the lowest value and I have found that going lower than the text book predicts is very beneficial to the sound.
If you look at the Wurth XXL docs you will see that the 13 amp rating is conservative, the current vs inductance charts showing a very gentle saturation characteristic similar to the carbonal toroids and they have a high resonant frequency. The Wurths XXL are very safe to use with the TK2050 chip set and have a much higher current capacity than the hair fine coils that come in the Sure 2X100 amps.
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Last edited by sendler; 8th March 2010 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 8th March 2010, 12:46 PM   #1095
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
the current vs inductance charts showing a very gentle saturation characteristic
Okay, maybe I missed it, but I don't see the meased frequency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
They sound very nice...
Ok, but have you measured anything? IR thermal, current etc...?

I would be most interested in this, afterall you have tried more than a dozen different ones...
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Last edited by v-bro; 8th March 2010 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 8th March 2010, 01:04 PM   #1096
sendler is offline sendler  United States
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Default IR Thermal?

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Originally Posted by v-bro View Post
Okay, maybe I missed it, but I don't see the meased frequency?



Ok, but have you measured anything? IR thermal, current etc...?

I would be most interested in this, afterall you have tried more than a dozen different ones...
IR thermal? Yeah, I measured IR thermal. With my finger. The filter caps get warmer than the coils.
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Old 8th March 2010, 01:19 PM   #1097
simone is offline simone  Italy
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Sendler, does the Wurth 10uH worth a try? Saturation current 10.5A.
http://katalog.we-online.de/kataloge...7447709100.pdf
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Old 8th March 2010, 03:48 PM   #1098
sendler is offline sendler  United States
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Default Xxl

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Sendler, does the Wurth 10uH worth a try? Saturation current 10.5A.
http://katalog.we-online.de/kataloge...7447709100.pdf
Yes, that is from the Wurth XXL family. You can go to the higher value of 10 - 12uH if you want more of a textbook filter without any peaking which will be down a db at 20k into a 4 ohm speaker.
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Old 8th March 2010, 04:31 PM   #1099
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I'd mentioned that I had my Sure board up and running with 12 volts. I know the difference has been talked about here, but I found a 19.5 volt SMPS in the garage and gave that a shot. Big difference! I expect to hear more of the same with 24 volts (I have a pair of batteries). Better extension, better dynamics, etc. After that, I guess I need to try 30 volts.

12 volts was like driving a Ferrari in second gear all day. I'm obviously not done yet, but I think there's a reason so few companies have messed with the t-2022 vs. the t-2050. I'm pretty sure that the t-2000 t-2050 combination sounds better and when you take the simplicity of the power supply into account, it's a lot cheaper to implement and much less finicky.
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Old 8th March 2010, 04:45 PM   #1100
v-bro is offline v-bro  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfong View Post
After that, I guess I need to try 30 volts.
And after that I guess you need to try STA517B, a bunch of different caps, a few different value resistors and try 50Vdc!Click the image to open in full size.
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