Sure Electronics New Tripath Board tc2000+tp2050

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Jump to Latest
K

kristleifur

Member
Joined 2006
Last edited:
S

sendler

Member
Joined 2004
mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id2.html
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Member
Joined 2003
You'll find that the inductors get quite warm, even with no signal playing. This is due to hysteresis losses and eddy current losses in the ferrite core, as well as the normal I^2*R losses in the copper winding. The quiescent current taken from the supply is an indicator of both shoot-through current and core losses. A quiescent current of 300mA at 32V (150mA per channel) is really very poor indeed by current standards. The fitted inductors are quite small, you get much lower core loss with an inductor having a better and larger core. The problem is that there's not much room on these board to fit a shielded core that is larger.
 
S

sendler

Member
Joined 2004
mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id2.html
Warm inductors on Sure 2x100?

Ouroboros said:
You'll find that the inductors get quite warm, even with no signal playing. This is due to hysteresis losses and eddy current losses in the ferrite core, as well as the normal I^2*R losses in the copper winding. The quiescent current taken from the supply is an indicator of both shoot-through current and core losses. A quiescent current of 300mA at 32V (150mA per channel) is really very poor indeed by current standards. The fitted inductors are quite small, you get much lower core loss with an inductor having a better and larger core. The problem is that there's not much room on these board to fit a shielded core that is larger.
Click to expand...
Do your inductors on your Sure 2X100 get warm? Most of the 15+ inductors that I have tried show no sign of warmth to the touch. The only inductors that did get even the slightest perception of warmth were the Ferroxcube, the white cores from my photos that were later potted in hot glue because they could be heard to audibly transmit the audio signal. All of the other cores were not warm. The tank caps are warmer which isn't very warm. The other thing that is consuming power and raising the value that I am posting on my amps is the second, dedicated voltage regulator dropping 32v to 5v which supplies only the fan. I will measure again a stock amp no fan, Wurth modified with no fan, and 6uH air torroids with no fan. I expect them all to be very close to the same.
 
v-bro

v-bro

Member
Joined 2006
Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Member
Joined 2003
The original 22uH inductors rose by around 12C above ambient when the amp was idling. I have tried one channel with 14uH inductors wound on Ferroxcube gapped ferrite toroid cores. These had no measurable temperature rise, but they're too big to realistically fit to the board. foolishly I didn't measure the quiescent current with these fitted. I am waiting for some Wurth 10uH shielded inductors (same size as the original parts) as the original 22uH parts give a far from flat frequency response in the audio band.
I said 150ma quiescent is poor. As an example, my design of a 250W bridge-output class-D amplifier for the company I work for idles at only 75ma on a +48V supply rail.
 
v-bro

v-bro

Member
Joined 2006
mattnz said:
Has anyone tried using arctic silver thermal compound instead of the stock white stuff? Using Arctic silver in my watercooled pcs lowers the temps 3-5c
Click to expand...

I have used stuff called Gold-something.... It turned out to be slightly electrically conductive. This gave problems with regards to ground and once even when it dripped on the chip pins the amp went into protection mode. I was lucky it worked again after I cleaned it.

Some pastes contain copper or aluminium powder...

BE SURE TO GET PASTE THAT IS NON CONDUCTIVE!

As a matter of fact I always use silicone pads because they are not poisonous(!), tidy to work with, plenty heat conductive for a properly operating class T amplifier and never gave me any problems of overheating.
 
Last edited:
M

mattnz

Member
Joined 2010
v-bro said:
I have used stuff called Gold-something.... It turned out to be slightly electrically conductive. This gave problems with regards to ground and once even when it dripped on the chip pins the amp went into protection mode. I was lucky it worked again after I cleaned it.

Some pastes contain copper or aluminium powder...

BE SURE TO GET PASTE THAT IS NON CONDUCTIVE!

As a matter of fact I always use silicone pads because they are not poisonous(!), tidy to work with, plenty heat conductive for a properly operating class T amplifier and never gave me any problems of overheating.
Click to expand...

Its very conductive it contains 99.9% pure silver, the same rule applies when applying the stuff to a CPU you musnt get any near any of the pins, I use a scalpel to apply about a grain of rice sized amount.... its definately worth while...

Ive read comments saying the bass isnt that great with these amps, Im going to be running mission m35i speakers which are 25-150w 96db, is there any capacitor mods that improve bass?
 
Last edited:
v-bro

v-bro

Member
Joined 2006
mattnz said:
Its very conductive it contains 99.9% pure silver, the same rule applies when applying the stuff to a CPU you musnt get any near any of the pins, I use a scalpel to apply about a grain of rice sized amount.... its definately worth while...

Ive read comments saying the bass isnt that great with these amps, Im going to be running mission m35i speakers which are 25-150w 96db, is there any capacitor mods that improve bass?
Click to expand...

It really should not be necessary and there's always a risk of it dripping where it's not supposed to in time.:Pawprint:

Bass not good? This should be the strong part of these amps! :confused:
 
M

mattnz

Member
Joined 2010
v-bro said:
It really should not be necessary and there's always a risk of it dripping where it's not supposed to in time.:Pawprint:

Bass not good? This should be the strong part of these amps! :confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah I read it in this review

Sure 2x100W TK2050 Amplifier ? First Impressions

Im currently running them off a NAD 50w HT amp NAD underate their amps.. they sound alright but not as good as Ive heard them during a demo.... will there be an improvement if I bi amped them with a 4x100?
 
v-bro

v-bro

Member
Joined 2006
It's not a very professionally done temperature measurement, but an estimate of 50C at 24V input is quite serious. This is really strange. I test run my TK2050 amps from 41hz without heatsink for a while at such a voltage and it takes a few minutes before I feel the chip has reached a temperature above ambient temperature. With a tiny heatsink you won't even notice it's on or off!

I suspect something is seriously wrong with this design!
 
S

sendler

Member
Joined 2004
mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id2.html
BBM setting of 41Hz?

v-bro said:
It's not a very professionally done temperature measurement, but an estimate of 50C at 24V input is quite serious. This is really strange. I test run my TK2050 amps from 41hz without heatsink for a while at such a voltage and it takes a few minutes before I feel the chip has reached a temperature above ambient temperature. With a tiny heatsink you won't even notice it's on or off!

I suspect something is seriously wrong with this design!
Click to expand...
I wonder what the Break Before Make setting of the 41Hz amps are? I was playing with one of my new version 2X100 with the big silver heat sink and fan last night to get some measurements of the draw and measured the heat sink temp with the fan disconnected. I was hoping that the new larger heatsink would be big enough to run with no fan but the temp went to 65c at idle so this is clearly too hot. I have ordered some Zalman heatsinks to try as it would be much nicer to just get rid of the fan rather than putting up with the electrcal radiated noise of the newest version and also having to build a new 5v supply to keep the one for the amp clean. The stock amp measures 170ma with no fan and the amp with the 6uH air toroids measures 160 so there is a slight difference. The big question I must dive into this weekend is why the other two amps that I like the sound of the best and have the most mods, draw 270ma with no fan even though the little blue heat sink isn't getting as hot as the big silver one at only 170.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Top Bottom