Noise
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I found some thermostats at Digikey that I will try in my amps along with the extra 5v regulator but it might just be cheaper and easier to go with a better fanless heat sink such as this.
Newegg.com - ZALMAN ZM-NB47J Aluminum Heatsinks only - Memory & Chipset Cooling
My big 36v Meanwell power supply is dead silent. Can it be the the difference of the solid case versus the perforated case that yours has or is the whole problem with the psu and the fan because of the long run after your passive volume control?Lots of noise problems with this baby...
Firstly, the Meanwell 24V PSU having some stray EMI is an understatement. Due to bad layout as seen in the photo I had long lengths of wires alongside the PSU, and woo was it noisy.
Took me up to 3 layers of aluminium foil to tame it, two wasn't enough, I could still hear noise over my computer at max volume.
Noise source number 2 - the fan, forget the subtle improvement of SQ with that fan removed, it is possible to hear the fan spinning through the speakers. I can confirm it's the fan because when it is stopped with my finger, so did the buzz.
The fan, it's more a curse then a gift!
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I found some thermostats at Digikey that I will try in my amps along with the extra 5v regulator but it might just be cheaper and easier to go with a better fanless heat sink such as this.
Newegg.com - ZALMAN ZM-NB47J Aluminum Heatsinks only - Memory & Chipset Cooling
For one, solid vs perforated, most likely a yes, because the noise is largely gone with the extra aluminium covering the PSU as per my picture. This is futher supported by the fact that shielding the part after the volume control did little compared to before the volume control, right over the perforated part of the PSU.
I have a Zalman ZM-N32J at the top right of the first photo. Still have yet another spare one in fact.
I have a Zalman ZM-N32J at the top right of the first photo.
Still have yet another spare one in fact.
Lots of noise problems with this baby...
Firstly, the Meanwell 24V PSU having some stray EMI is an understatement. Due to bad layout as seen in the photo I had long lengths of wires alongside the PSU, and woo was it noisy.
Took me up to 3 layers of aluminium foil to tame it, two wasn't enough, I could still hear noise over my computer at max volume.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Noise source number 2 - the fan, forget the subtle improvement of SQ with that fan removed, it is possible to hear the fan spinning through the speakers. I can confirm it's the fan because when it is stopped with my finger, so did the buzz.
The fan, it's more a curse then a gift!
So did you move the PSU around to see if the noise changed? I had the same problem once because my amp was too close to the flyback transformer of the PSU, this was easy solved by placing a metal screen between the amp and PSU. It is always best though to tame noise at the source than to fix it once it has spreaded.
At the start before I had the volume control I was connecting RCA cables directly to the amp board, and didn't recall hearing any noise. The testing environment wasn't quite sensitive though.
One Zalman ZM-N32J later, silence at 15cm from the tweeter at max volume, had to switch off my computer to verify. Even so the buzz from the network switch was louder.
Also found that some of the hiss was due to the EMI from my computer + unshielded interconnects (twisted pair, audiophile style).
One thing I'm curious though, how much power does this draw at low volumes to be able to make the heatsink slightly warm? If the TA2024 doesn't required a heatsink, and Tripaths are supposed to be efficient at no to low-loads...
One Zalman ZM-N32J later, silence at 15cm from the tweeter at max volume, had to switch off my computer to verify. Even so the buzz from the network switch was louder.
Also found that some of the hiss was due to the EMI from my computer + unshielded interconnects (twisted pair, audiophile style).
One thing I'm curious though, how much power does this draw at low volumes to be able to make the heatsink slightly warm? If the TA2024 doesn't required a heatsink, and Tripaths are supposed to be efficient at no to low-loads...
I'm not completely familiar with the Sure implementation - What is connected to the heatsink?
(What I'm getting at is this - Warning: Anecdotal - My 41Hz Amp11's are run without any heatsink at all at 20V into 6 Ohms. (These are TP2050 amps too.) The power chip itself does get slightly warm - under load. The voltage regulators that feed the low-voltage circuit do get warm, as their function dictates.)
A few random questions: Can you define slightly warm? What's the temperature rise between idle and load? Does the amp have any DC offset on the outputs?
45 degrees, 2 degrees less or more depending on idling or playing, I can't measure more with a clinical thermometer. The room thermometer says 30, though I'm sure it's less, with the air conditioner on.
DC offsets of both channels within 3mV.
45 degrees isn't scary at all (for someone with a 80 degree graphics card), but a 15 degrees rise with a heatsink cooling two idling TP2050s is just plain strange, I've used the ZM-32J on northbridge chipsets and they ran cooler. Furthermore earlier in the thread there are already complaints of high heat from these supposedly-efficient amps.
I would've just measured if my meter could handle more than 200mA.
DC offsets of both channels within 3mV.
45 degrees isn't scary at all (for someone with a 80 degree graphics card), but a 15 degrees rise with a heatsink cooling two idling TP2050s is just plain strange, I've used the ZM-32J on northbridge chipsets and they ran cooler. Furthermore earlier in the thread there are already complaints of high heat from these supposedly-efficient amps.
I would've just measured if my meter could handle more than 200mA.
Dayton TK2050 amp
These new Dayton TK2050 amps might be pretty cool.
Parts-Express.comayton DTA-100 Class-T Digital Amplifer 50 WPC | dta-100 dayton audio dayton dta100 Dayton audio t amp t-amplifier t-amp t amp t amplifier class t amplifier class-t amplifier class t tripath tri-path tri path tripath amplifier ster
These new Dayton TK2050 amps might be pretty cool.
Parts-Express.com
ayton DTA-100 Class-T Digital Amplifer 50 WPC | dta-100 dayton audio dayton dta100 Dayton audio t amp t-amplifier t-amp t amp t amplifier class t amplifier class-t amplifier class t tripath tri-path tri path tripath amplifier sterAttachments
Hi can someone tell me how many amps PSU I need to run a TA2050 please ? Still not ordered this one until I know if it will be powerfull enough:
24V 10A DC Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply on eBay (end time 14-Mar-10 13:32:55 GMT)
Thanks
24V 10A DC Universal Regulated Switching Power Supply on eBay (end time 14-Mar-10 13:32:55 GMT)
Thanks
Meanwell power supply
I would rather have this one.
NEW Meanwell 24V DC 14.6A 350W Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 380211714580 end time Mar-09-10 12:07:44 PST)
Or this one turned down to 32v
New 36V DC 10A 350W Regulated Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 120538025671 end time Apr-01-10 02:27:26 PDT)
I would rather have this one.
NEW Meanwell 24V DC 14.6A 350W Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 380211714580 end time Mar-09-10 12:07:44 PST)
Or this one turned down to 32v
New 36V DC 10A 350W Regulated Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 120538025671 end time Apr-01-10 02:27:26 PDT)
I have to say that my Meanwell is the first switching P.S. that I can find no fault with. I'm picky--I'm a ham radio operator. Hash from other switching power supplies have rendered them useless in my environment (including my old 10A Astron). That they work great with the Tripath amp and never break a sweat (fan never has to turn on) is a bonus. I wish my buzzing Superphon outboard supply worked as well (gotta implement a DC blocking scheme one of these days).
Hi Scott, thanks but will be no problem as I will mount the amps behind each speaker. One channel for the bass and the other for the highs etc. Just testing at the moment, so my modding looks rather crude
Amp's on its way looking to summerize this massive thread
I have the Sure 2*100 on the way. I'm looking to digest how to get the most benefit with the fewest mods/ order parts from the fewest places to save on shipping.
Nice and easy mods seem to be:
1. Based on Wwenze's comments the HS fan needs to go, I do wonder if the noise is coming out from the fan itself or adding noise to the 5v rail it's getting powered from but I ordered a ZM-NB47J heat sink from Newegg to be safe.
2. Adjust the input filter cap which doesn't seem to have enough capacitance to transfer the low frequencies
Where it seems to get a little funky is the output filter, there seems to be a lot of debate what the ideal filter is. What I'd like to know is if I were to keep the the caps that are on the board and leave out the zobel, does only replacing the inductors help? If so what values should be used. I'd prefer to not bother making an order from PE to get all the Caps and I'm also worried about all the lead lengths using those caps on this board which wasn't made for them.
Is my understanding correct that the output filter mods only helps on the high end?
I've been trying to read through this thread to figure everything out on my own but it's easy to get lost in all of the back and forth over 108 pages...
I have the Sure 2*100 on the way. I'm looking to digest how to get the most benefit with the fewest mods/ order parts from the fewest places to save on shipping.
Nice and easy mods seem to be:
1. Based on Wwenze's comments the HS fan needs to go, I do wonder if the noise is coming out from the fan itself or adding noise to the 5v rail it's getting powered from but I ordered a ZM-NB47J heat sink from Newegg to be safe.
2. Adjust the input filter cap which doesn't seem to have enough capacitance to transfer the low frequencies
Where it seems to get a little funky is the output filter, there seems to be a lot of debate what the ideal filter is. What I'd like to know is if I were to keep the the caps that are on the board and leave out the zobel, does only replacing the inductors help? If so what values should be used. I'd prefer to not bother making an order from PE to get all the Caps and I'm also worried about all the lead lengths using those caps on this board which wasn't made for them.
Is my understanding correct that the output filter mods only helps on the high end?
I've been trying to read through this thread to figure everything out on my own but it's easy to get lost in all of the back and forth over 108 pages...
got mine
I just received my board from Sure. It's definitely the 2 channel version and not a disabled 4 channel board. It comes with a 5 volt fan mounted on a heatsink and they appear to include a 12 volt fan in the box. Is there an advantage using one instead of the other? In the meantime, I'm looking forward to playing with it.
I just received my board from Sure. It's definitely the 2 channel version and not a disabled 4 channel board. It comes with a 5 volt fan mounted on a heatsink and they appear to include a 12 volt fan in the box. Is there an advantage using one instead of the other? In the meantime, I'm looking forward to playing with it.
Hi, Me too using one amp per speaker, but may I ask if you are using the same input cap values for each driver ? I did not have enough caps of the same values to do all so had to make do with what I had for now. So for the tweeters I used Obbligatos 0.47uf's, and on the bass 2.0ufs.
Not if its due to a cold I had a few weeks back, but the sound is woolly in the mids, so don't know if its the caps or my head !
Thanks
12v fans
They usually send two identical 12v fans and run them from 5v so they spin slowly and quietly. The second fan is just a spare in case the first one ever goes bad.
Mods
My fans on the second version, blue, heat sinks don't radiate any noise into the input as his do even though I am using passive stepped attenuators. Maybe the the third version, silver fans are noisier? I have some new amps on order so I will be able to find out when they get here. There was an improvement when isolating the fan with it's own 5v supply but it would be cheaper and easier to just install a nice passive heat sink which I think I will do for all of the amps except maybe the subs if they run hot.
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The input cap issue is about sound quality, not bass. I ran .47uf for a first try and the bass was fine. I would much rather have 1.5uf of something really great than 10uf of a mid line input cap.
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You should be able to get a big improvement in the output filter even with the stock caps by changing the coils. Use the 6.8 or maybe even the 4.7 Wurth XXL if you don't want to bother using a zobel but I see that some one has cleaned Digikey out of the 6.8 and 4.7uH coils. None in stock.
Digi-Key - 732-1238-1-ND (Manufacturer - 7447709003)
I can try this in a few weeks when I get more amps.
My fans on the second version, blue, heat sinks don't radiate any noise into the input as his do even though I am using passive stepped attenuators. Maybe the the third version, silver fans are noisier? I have some new amps on order so I will be able to find out when they get here. There was an improvement when isolating the fan with it's own 5v supply but it would be cheaper and easier to just install a nice passive heat sink which I think I will do for all of the amps except maybe the subs if they run hot.
.
The input cap issue is about sound quality, not bass. I ran .47uf for a first try and the bass was fine. I would much rather have 1.5uf of something really great than 10uf of a mid line input cap.
.
You should be able to get a big improvement in the output filter even with the stock caps by changing the coils. Use the 6.8 or maybe even the 4.7 Wurth XXL if you don't want to bother using a zobel but I see that some one has cleaned Digikey out of the 6.8 and 4.7uH coils. None in stock.
Digi-Key - 732-1238-1-ND (Manufacturer - 7447709003)
I can try this in a few weeks when I get more amps.
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