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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

Sure Electronics New Tripath Board  tc2000+tp2050
Sure Electronics New Tripath Board  tc2000+tp2050
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Old 4th August 2009, 01:20 PM   #331
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by audio1st
I am a bit fussy about the 5v supply and IMHO wouldn't add a fan to it (noise on line, strain on reg?). I would add a separate 5v supply (reg), I have even removed the green Led from my 5v supply.
Valid point. I checked my 5v regulator and it is not heating up excessively. The fan draws about .1 amp. I had considered getting a bigger, better 5v regulator, but shelved the idea for the present. Adding a second 5v regulator instead might be a better idea. Thanks, audio1st.

There's no limit to the levels of perfection we can seek. The 5v supply is critical to the TK2050, it runs the TC2000 chip and half the TP2050 chip. Keeping it clean and improving it are undoubtedly good things.

Still, I can't hear any audible degradation in my sound by running the fan off the stock 5v supply, so I'll keep it for the time being.

I also have a 48v fan that I tried on my 34v power, but it ran too fast and made too much wind noise. I may put a pot on it and try to dial in a good speed.

-dr_vega
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Old 4th August 2009, 01:35 PM   #332
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by audio1st
Just an update, I previously changed C4 to a 100uF FM. This has now been changed to a 10uF Tantalum. I think it has made the bass more snappy and removed a bit of treble distortion?
That's surprising! One would expect that the Panny, with 10 times the capacitance and lower ESR would give a more stable, solid, and quicker power source.

Any ideas why the tantalum sounds better?

-dr_vega
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Old 4th August 2009, 03:14 PM   #333
gapmedia is offline gapmedia  Australia
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Many people, especially in the valve/tube world, try to steer away from electrolytics in the power supply due to harsh treble and lack of speed. Plastic films are very popular now. Has anyone here tried plastic film (polypropylene) caps instead of electrolytics in the power supply of their Tripath board? Obligatto make some nice polypropylene in oil caps for such a job, although they are higher voltage and lower uf than the electrolytics generally used for these types of amp.

Maybe a bank of paralleled Tantalums (to get the uf up and esr down(?)) bypassed with a plastic film cap might be an interesting exercise to try.

Another cap to try would be the Elna Silmic II series of electrolytics. They use silk fibres in the electrolytic paper and, according to Nelson Pass, are one of the great audiophile bargains of the Modern World. See link below:

http://www.elna.co.jp/en/capacitor/onkyou/silmic.html

Simon
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Old 4th August 2009, 04:41 PM   #334
audio1st is offline audio1st  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by dr_vega


That's surprising! One would expect that the Panny, with 10 times the capacitance and lower ESR would give a more stable, solid, and quicker power source.

Any ideas why the tantalum sounds better?

-dr_vega

I am like you and read lots of info on the internet, it can be conflicting sometimes.
Anyway, I found the link below which if I made any sense of it said that using a low esr cap on the output of the reg was a step in the wrong direction. Panasonic FM quickly removed..
Now it sounds better with the Tantalum to me, but may have been even better with the original



http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/3pin_reg_notes3.html
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Old 4th August 2009, 05:13 PM   #335
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by gapmedia
Many people, especially in the valve/tube world, try to steer away from electrolytics in the power supply due to harsh treble and lack of speed. Plastic films are very popular now. Has anyone here tried plastic film (polypropylene) caps instead of electrolytics in the power supply of their Tripath board? Obligatto make some nice polypropylene in oil caps for such a job, although they are higher voltage and lower uf than the electrolytics generally used for these types of amp.

Maybe a bank of paralleled Tantalums (to get the uf up and esr down(?)) bypassed with a plastic film cap might be an interesting exercise to try.

Another cap to try would be the Elna Silmic II series of electrolytics. They use silk fibres in the electrolytic paper and, according to Nelson Pass, are one of the great audiophile bargains of the Modern World. See link below:

http://www.elna.co.jp/en/capacitor/onkyou/silmic.html

Simon
Getting thousands of uF in film or foil capacitors is hard. It takes a lot of room and a lot of money. In the world I live in, it's not feasible, electrolytics are an evil necessity. I generally use Elna Silmics and I like them a lot, although Digikey only has them up to 35v. I also like Panasonic FM and FC, which I'll use on the TK2050 because I need 50v.

I've never tried bypassing electrolytics with film or PIO, but I might try it with the TK2050. I'm liking the Dayton foil caps so much as signal caps, I might try bypassing some storage caps with them.

My first upgrade signal caps on my first T-amp were Obligattos. I hated them. They sounded harsh to me even after 200 hours of break in. I felt the same about Solen Fast Caps. I liked the Dayton films better, but eventually went to paper in oil. So you can see that I like a more liquid sound, but still with plenty of detail.

-dr_vega
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Old 4th August 2009, 05:45 PM   #336
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by audio1st



I am like you and read lots of info on the internet, it can be conflicting sometimes.
Anyway, I found the link below which if I made any sense of it said that using a low esr cap on the output of the reg was a step in the wrong direction. Panasonic FM quickly removed..
Now it sounds better with the Tantalum to me, but may have been even better with the original



http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/3pin_reg_notes3.html
Very interesting. I think I understand most of it.

I still think it's a good thing to have a large fast reservoir of power near the chip. I wonder what adding a Panny FM between C4 and the chip would do.

Or perhaps putting a 1 ohm resistor between the regulator and an FM. That should give the regulator the impedance it wants and still have a fast path to the chip.

-dr_vega
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Old 4th August 2009, 10:24 PM   #337
theZ is offline theZ  Norway
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayang001


Lift the heatsink, mine looked ok as well until I lifted the heatsink and found that pins on the TP2050 were gone.

Also I recommend to put 3A fuse in the powerline.
I did some hairdrying to lift the heatsingk - and voilą - legs are in fact missing on the left TP2050. Doesnt look as burnt as on your image but the same legs are affected - mines missing pin 7 and 12. So maybe i didnt do anything wrong then, i just assumed that it must be my fault and shorting outputs was the only thing that physically could have happened, everything was enclosed (and well vented). Running from 2 x 12V SLA:s and an iphone as source

So were they hard to deal with? Regarding a replacement
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Old 5th August 2009, 12:34 AM   #338
budget minded is offline budget minded  United States
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hey everyone. i was just given a heads up on these amps as i used to have a sonic impact bike system and now that the amp has fried and the speaker posts are destroyed, i was looking for something with a bit more power for v 2.0.

i'm not looking to run these units at full power, maybe just 50w. i'll also be using 92dB efficient 6 1/2" two ways vs 86dB 5 1/4"s so i'm sure i'll easily play louder than the sonic impact.

i'm not a circuit builder, so i have 2 questions.

1. are the sure amps prebuilt? it sounds like they are from everyone's descriptions of just "plugging them in for testing" and by the pics at the website.
&
2. what are your opinions about running the amps with 24v worth of li-on batteries or even 30v? like i said, i'm not looking for 100w, just something with a bit more bass capability than a 15w sonic impact for no more than 4 hours of run time.

in trying to decipher all of the technospeak here, i picked up that batteries can introduce noise (i would have thought they're BETTER than transformers as in A/B) and that people should use some sort of "buffer" to isolate the batteries.

the reason i'm considering the sure is i don't want to buy a 41Hz kit. i'm looking for something i can just wire up for my bicycle system.

BTW... motorcycles are NOT bikes... they're motorcycles! LOL

any help anyone could offer for my next bike system is appreciated.

i like the symmetrical look of the sure units a lot as i wanted to mount them under plexiglass and now that i've read about heat issues, am imagining using a red LED fan to cool the amp and as my taillight. is this a doable project?

thank goodness i remembered to copy and paste this as usual, DIY keeps logging me off before i can ever make a reply
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Old 5th August 2009, 01:42 AM   #339
dr_vega is offline dr_vega  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by budget minded

1. are the sure amps prebuilt? it sounds like they are from everyone's descriptions of just "plugging them in for testing" and by the pics at the website.
&
2. what are your opinions about running the amps with 24v worth of li-on batteries or even 30v? like i said, i'm not looking for 100w, just something with a bit more bass capability than a 15w sonic impact for no more than 4 hours of run time.

The units are completely pre-built and sound great right out of the box. The only "construction" is mounting the speaker binding posts if you want to use them instead of the screw connectors. It even comes with all the cables you need.

24 or 30 volt batteries will work fine. I don't know about any noise or a buffer with batteries. Were they talking about using them in a car? I can see someone wanting to filter a car's alternator noise, but batteries are about as silent as you can get.

Where in Oregon are you? I'm in the Ashland-Medford area.

-dr_vega
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Old 5th August 2009, 05:26 PM   #340
budget minded is offline budget minded  United States
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i'm in eugene and plan on using the amps for a bike system. for some reason, every time i say bike no matter what i'm talking about, everyone always asks "motorcycle?"

i'm giving serious consideration to the sures then. i love the look of the black SYMMETRICAL motherboard with blue capacitors (?) as i plan on mounting it under plexiglass with LED or cold cathode lighting. i might go the UV route too as i was looking into LED PC fans for a tail light, but translucent hot pink sounds better and would look cool on the black & blue amp.

i'd rather use the screw connectors as the wires will be going straight to to speakers and the banana plugs would get in the way of the 80mm exhaust fan i'm planning on. from what i understand, i could wire it directly into the amp's 5v mute terminals without needing another set of batteries just for the fan. is that correct? i'd rather undervolt a fan for quieter operation anyways.

i'd like to run it with 24v of li-on batteries as that would mean i could use 4 x 3v per side underneath lightweight 92dB pyle outdoor speakers. i'm thinking of putting the batteries under plexi too and probably adding some blue EL wire stripes between the speakers and batteries.

if you're interested, i still have pics of my 1st bike system as well as the unfinished 500w trailer i can't use because i can't get it out my door at my bike system website
http://takatomon2000.googlepages.com...eet_party_bike

i'd rather use the trailer, but living in oregon, you know EVERYTHING closes at sundown! just try and find a storage unit you can pull your trailer out of at 11 pm!
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