Or should I say best fidelity for the buck?(including an amp's potential for improvement with modding) I'm putting together my first real speaker setup, and it's gotta be on a budget since I'm a college student. I bought some Insignias and I have decent DAC that I use with headphones (the Alien if anyone here is familiar with it). So the amp is the last thing I need, and from what I've gathered a T-amp is the best way to go hi-fi on a budget. I know the 41Hz is totally DIY and the sureelectronics is best with some modification, and that the Trends can be improved alot with some mods. I wouldn't call myself a seasoned DIYer, but I have built 2 CMoys , 2 Alien DACs, and 2 Millett Maxes, so I'm fairly confident with a soldering iron.
I tried searching but everything kept coming up with no results?????
I tried searching but everything kept coming up with no results?????
I think the fact that you can't find a lot of strong opinions about which is best here on these discussions reflects the fact that people are generally satisfied with all the small Tripaths, once they're modified with proper input and power reservoir caps.
So, the choice comes down to build or buy, with a case or find your own, etc.
For my money, the 4i Hz amp 6 is great for an easy build and with a little more power than the SI, Trends, etc. Or, the amp 32 has a similar sound (identical?), but being all surface mounted parts is a good deal more challenging and requires a sharp-pointed iron and equally sharp eyes, but the price is even righter. With either of those you get to build your own case in a way that will amaze and astound your friends.
--Buckapound.
So, the choice comes down to build or buy, with a case or find your own, etc.
For my money, the 4i Hz amp 6 is great for an easy build and with a little more power than the SI, Trends, etc. Or, the amp 32 has a similar sound (identical?), but being all surface mounted parts is a good deal more challenging and requires a sharp-pointed iron and equally sharp eyes, but the price is even righter. With either of those you get to build your own case in a way that will amaze and astound your friends.
--Buckapound.
I built a 41hz amp32 and loved it's hear through quality,but i certainly found it a challenge to build.when a dog related accident killed it i tried a sure electronics board,same chip,same sound.....no way,however after i altered it's a board a little i found it's sound improved, and it"s certainly easier to mess with something ready made.
so which is cheapest
no seriously, the're both absoluteley amazing
regards
so which is cheapest
no seriously, the're both absoluteley amazing
regards
I haven't tried the others, but I have been astounded with the Sure boards. Very easy to work on.
I am documenting my board changes on my website as I go along.
There is also an extensive thread in this forum on the Sure boards. Those that have compared them with other kits have been enthuisiastic about the sure boards.
I am documenting my board changes on my website as I go along.
There is also an extensive thread in this forum on the Sure boards. Those that have compared them with other kits have been enthuisiastic about the sure boards.
41HZ T-Amps
I have built 2 41HZ AMP6 T-Amps. The AMP6 puts out 25 watts which is a little more power than most of the other T-Amps.
The kit is easy to build it but it takes some patience. If you don't have experience with surface mount components it takes some practice. I found that the second build went extremely fast because I had the experience with the SMDs on the first amp.
Overall the 41HZ amps are for the most part sound fine when completed. I have found the major sonic impact to be yielded by different input capacitors. I have tried other tweaks, but the effort was greater than the return.
The 41HZ amps are fine kits, IMO. If you want to bypass the use of a preamp you will have to purchase a variable resistor vor volume control. You will also need a power transformer to make a functional unit. The AMP^ has it own onboard powere rectification. Add a box/chassis, input jacks, and speaker binding posts and you are in business.
The power supply for the AMP6 is different from the other T-Amps. If you are interedted in the 41HZ offerings I would suggest that you check out the forum at 41HZ you will find a wealth of information and answers to any questions you might have regarding 41HZ products.
I have built 2 41HZ AMP6 T-Amps. The AMP6 puts out 25 watts which is a little more power than most of the other T-Amps.
The kit is easy to build it but it takes some patience. If you don't have experience with surface mount components it takes some practice. I found that the second build went extremely fast because I had the experience with the SMDs on the first amp.
Overall the 41HZ amps are for the most part sound fine when completed. I have found the major sonic impact to be yielded by different input capacitors. I have tried other tweaks, but the effort was greater than the return.
The 41HZ amps are fine kits, IMO. If you want to bypass the use of a preamp you will have to purchase a variable resistor vor volume control. You will also need a power transformer to make a functional unit. The AMP^ has it own onboard powere rectification. Add a box/chassis, input jacks, and speaker binding posts and you are in business.
The power supply for the AMP6 is different from the other T-Amps. If you are interedted in the 41HZ offerings I would suggest that you check out the forum at 41HZ you will find a wealth of information and answers to any questions you might have regarding 41HZ products.
Whats your budget? If you are confident with a soldering iron and have a temperature controlled iron then the 41hz kits are the way to go. For more info go read the 41hz forums.
I have recently built an amp9-basic 4x100w using a $70 SMPS of ebay the thing rocks!
http://minirig.org.au/2008/05/28/minirig-41hzcom-amp9-basic/
I had bad experience with the 4x100W sureelectronics hissing (not tripath though).
col.
I have recently built an amp9-basic 4x100w using a $70 SMPS of ebay the thing rocks!
http://minirig.org.au/2008/05/28/minirig-41hzcom-amp9-basic/
I had bad experience with the 4x100W sureelectronics hissing (not tripath though).
col.
yeah, I think sure electronics have stopped selling the 4*100W now.
With the 41hz amp9-basic I have done away with passive crossover components in the speakers and I'm using the 4 channels to power the tweeter and the midrange using a active linkwitz riley crossover.
I have now even started to use one of the 41hz PS2-P+INV power supply to step down from my single ended 24v SMPS to provide +/-15v rails to power the electronic crossover board. Which is from Rod Elliot ESP P09b. http://sound.au.com
col.
With the 41hz amp9-basic I have done away with passive crossover components in the speakers and I'm using the 4 channels to power the tweeter and the midrange using a active linkwitz riley crossover.
I have now even started to use one of the 41hz PS2-P+INV power supply to step down from my single ended 24v SMPS to provide +/-15v rails to power the electronic crossover board. Which is from Rod Elliot ESP P09b. http://sound.au.com
col.
I think I'm looking at either Amp 5 or 6, cause I don't feel comfortable soldering a surface mount Tripath chip yet. I know the amp 5 is 2x100w and the 6 is 2x25w. They both have an onboard power supply, correct? If most of the sound comes from the first watt, what's the advantage of having 100w over 25? Again, I'll be using this with Insignias which as you probably all know are 8ohms and 90dB/W and I'll be using them in a fairly small apartment
Depends, mostly, on how loud you want to go - if the Insignia's genuinely are 90dB/W, then 1 watt gets you 90dB max, 10 watts gets you to 100dB max, 25 watts gets you to 104dB max, and 100 watts gets you to 110dB max.
Assuming you're listening to modern rock/pop, you can assume a dynamic range of only 10ish dB, so if you want to listen at an average 90dB (which is already quite loud) with transients up to 100dB, 10 watts (or 25 watts) will be sufficient. Going to 100W would allow you to listen at an average 100dB with corresponding dynamic headroom.
Add 3dB to all the above figures to get the numbers for a stereo pair.
I can't see you having many opportunities, in a small apartment, to be going to 100+dB, so I'd suggest the 25W model.
However, I just read through the 41hz site, and their specifications are rather dishonest. Their rated power outputs are for 4 ohm loads at 10% THD. When you assume an 8 ohm load at a more realistic 0.1% THD, Amp6 is only good for about 2 x 8 watts.
Amp5 is much more honestly specified, and is good for 2 x 50W at 0.015% THD, which is far more acceptable. So despite the advice above, I would recommend either: going for the Sure-electronics board, which turns out to be not-so-different from the Amp6 in real power output, or going for Amp5.
At 2 x 50W, you're looking at 107dB max from each speaker, or 110dB total, ie. sustained listening at ~100dB.
Assuming you're listening to modern rock/pop, you can assume a dynamic range of only 10ish dB, so if you want to listen at an average 90dB (which is already quite loud) with transients up to 100dB, 10 watts (or 25 watts) will be sufficient. Going to 100W would allow you to listen at an average 100dB with corresponding dynamic headroom.
Add 3dB to all the above figures to get the numbers for a stereo pair.
I can't see you having many opportunities, in a small apartment, to be going to 100+dB, so I'd suggest the 25W model.
However, I just read through the 41hz site, and their specifications are rather dishonest. Their rated power outputs are for 4 ohm loads at 10% THD. When you assume an 8 ohm load at a more realistic 0.1% THD, Amp6 is only good for about 2 x 8 watts.
Amp5 is much more honestly specified, and is good for 2 x 50W at 0.015% THD, which is far more acceptable. So despite the advice above, I would recommend either: going for the Sure-electronics board, which turns out to be not-so-different from the Amp6 in real power output, or going for Amp5.
At 2 x 50W, you're looking at 107dB max from each speaker, or 110dB total, ie. sustained listening at ~100dB.
AMP6 power supply
The AMP6 has voltage regulation built on the board. You will still need either a transformer that provides 12 to 15 VAC or a power supply that provides 16-20VDC.
As to power required; it has been my experience that the T-Amps provide a lot more music power than traditional solid state. I replaced a 200-WPC solid state amp with my AMP6. I have found myself listening at lower and lower volume levels with the AMP6.
I would attribute this to what I call music power. The noise floor on these amps allows more music to come forth. Thus requiring less power. It is my experience that performances sound more life like with a fraction of the power that the AMP6 can provide compared to my 200-WPC SS amp with tube pre-amp.
If you are trying to melt the paint on the walls then go for greater power, else you will find the AMP6 more than adequate. YMMV.
The AMP6 has voltage regulation built on the board. You will still need either a transformer that provides 12 to 15 VAC or a power supply that provides 16-20VDC.
As to power required; it has been my experience that the T-Amps provide a lot more music power than traditional solid state. I replaced a 200-WPC solid state amp with my AMP6. I have found myself listening at lower and lower volume levels with the AMP6.
I would attribute this to what I call music power. The noise floor on these amps allows more music to come forth. Thus requiring less power. It is my experience that performances sound more life like with a fraction of the power that the AMP6 can provide compared to my 200-WPC SS amp with tube pre-amp.
If you are trying to melt the paint on the walls then go for greater power, else you will find the AMP6 more than adequate. YMMV.
TheSeekerr said:
I find class D chip ratings to be very difficult to compare. A lot of them are rated for 4ohm 10% THD. Some are rated at 0.1% THD. Others rated at 8ohms, but you have to be careful to make sure they have the current capability to support 4ohms at the same voltage. What's even more confusing is that manufacturers (e.g. Phlips) don't even standardize ratings within their own product line
col said:why limit yourself to 2 channels? go for an amp9 and get an extra 2. If you are at uni you will want to have a party with your friends sooner or later. 4 channels of amp9 will power a couple of subs too.
Headroom is your friend.
How does that work with stereo inputs? Outputs 2 channels of L input and 2 channels of R input? And would I have problems with impedance or sensitivity matching b/t the Insignias and the sub if I added one?
I divide the signal up using a preamp and a electronic crossover:
http://minirig.org.au/2008/07/25/minirig-esp-aiwa-2-way-crossover-with-preamp-and-balanced-outputs/
another good way of doing it is to get a small mixer that has 2 lots of outputs. Some DJ mixers have a "booth out", the little Behringer UB1002 are good value .
col.
http://minirig.org.au/2008/07/25/minirig-esp-aiwa-2-way-crossover-with-preamp-and-balanced-outputs/
another good way of doing it is to get a small mixer that has 2 lots of outputs. Some DJ mixers have a "booth out", the little Behringer UB1002 are good value .
col.
hmm, I'm wanting to keep it simple for now. Is there any reason I can't just use 2 channels of the Amp 9 till I get around to getting subs and a mixer or something? And what does it mean by "for 12-24V"? The power supply? It also says for low impedance loads, which I don't think 8 ohms is considered low, is it? Will this be a problem, or will it make it easy to blow my insiginas? Maybe I'll just stick with the Amp 5 for now. I can always sell it later if I want to get a 9
you can just use 2 channels of amp9 and then use the other 2 later on when you want to add subs or even another pair of fullrange. Having the 4 channels gives you the flexibility.
the range of the input voltage is 12-26v so it will work within that range giving you max power using a 26v supply.
using a 24v 6A power supply into 8ohm will give you around 40W RMS into each of the 2 channels. Using a 24v 14A supply into 8ohm will give you the same but into 4 channels (approx figures). If you drop the load to 4ohm, say by adding another pair of 8ohm speakers to the same outputs, the amp will supply more power into the lower impedance load, around 80-100W.
These little amp9s prefer lower impedance loads. I run mine with 4 x 2ohm loads playing at maximum power
some photos of my setup before a party:
http://pix.minirig.org.au/main.php?g2_itemId=661
I'm using amp9 to power 4 x JBL GTO937 (high sensitivity car speakers)
In that photo I have the subs on a different amp. Sometimes I just run one pair of JBL GTO937s and the subs off the other 2 channels.
a good power supply for amp9:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/350W-24V-14-...4590880QQihZ023QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItem
col.
the range of the input voltage is 12-26v so it will work within that range giving you max power using a 26v supply.
using a 24v 6A power supply into 8ohm will give you around 40W RMS into each of the 2 channels. Using a 24v 14A supply into 8ohm will give you the same but into 4 channels (approx figures). If you drop the load to 4ohm, say by adding another pair of 8ohm speakers to the same outputs, the amp will supply more power into the lower impedance load, around 80-100W.
These little amp9s prefer lower impedance loads. I run mine with 4 x 2ohm loads playing at maximum power
some photos of my setup before a party:
http://pix.minirig.org.au/main.php?g2_itemId=661
I'm using amp9 to power 4 x JBL GTO937 (high sensitivity car speakers)
In that photo I have the subs on a different amp. Sometimes I just run one pair of JBL GTO937s and the subs off the other 2 channels.
a good power supply for amp9:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/350W-24V-14-...4590880QQihZ023QQcategoryZ20589QQcmdZViewItem
col.
"For low impedance loads" just means that it CAN drive low impedances, not that it has to. It can actually drive all the way down to 1ohm loads, which is fairly impressive.
"For 12 - 24V" is mostly a set of numbers for those who want to use batteries to drive it, as the real maximum voltage specification is 27V. Since it includes a bridge rectifier (well, some versions do), it seems that it would be best to run it from an 18V transformer.
Yes, you could just use only 2 channels of the amp-9, but the power supply needed for the amp-9 is different from that needed for the amp-5, so keep that in mind.
"For 12 - 24V" is mostly a set of numbers for those who want to use batteries to drive it, as the real maximum voltage specification is 27V. Since it includes a bridge rectifier (well, some versions do), it seems that it would be best to run it from an 18V transformer.
Yes, you could just use only 2 channels of the amp-9, but the power supply needed for the amp-9 is different from that needed for the amp-5, so keep that in mind.
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