Hi Koifarm,
Had to go through the Hypex papers to check what is was all about. First of all if you go single ended into the + input Zin will NOT be 1,8k, it will be in the ballpark of 10k. This is great as 1,8k is not easy to deal with. To build a better tube interface you should go differential and use a transformer but that add costs.
Anyway, 10k makes things a little easier for the SRPP. Still with 60V i guess you don´t have more than in the ballpark of 0,4V on the lower cathode. If you also bother to check the link I sent you, it might be even worse....
When you go 120V, the SRPP will be able to take the needed input voltage for full output. Below is a simmed example that explains it all. You will get a nice wooly(compressed) THD(mainly secondorder) of over 5% at full output at 60V B+ but with 120V it will be well below 1%.
At 60V you will get in the ballpark of 2,5V rms below 1%.
Probably this is acceptable as the compression with higher input is what you need not to blow your speakers. And at usual listening levels you might be right about the 0,5% you spoke of
.
To get the best performance out of 6N6P or 6N30 they need over 100V over each triode and 20mA.
Glad you pointed out the input OP removal as this made me interested in the Hypex. I had before checked the Tripaths but there you are stuck with the internal input OP. But I will probably go for differential with good Lundahl transformers.
Had to go through the Hypex papers to check what is was all about. First of all if you go single ended into the + input Zin will NOT be 1,8k, it will be in the ballpark of 10k. This is great as 1,8k is not easy to deal with. To build a better tube interface you should go differential and use a transformer but that add costs.
Anyway, 10k makes things a little easier for the SRPP. Still with 60V i guess you don´t have more than in the ballpark of 0,4V on the lower cathode. If you also bother to check the link I sent you, it might be even worse....
When you go 120V, the SRPP will be able to take the needed input voltage for full output. Below is a simmed example that explains it all. You will get a nice wooly(compressed) THD(mainly secondorder) of over 5% at full output at 60V B+ but with 120V it will be well below 1%.
At 60V you will get in the ballpark of 2,5V rms below 1%.
Probably this is acceptable as the compression with higher input is what you need not to blow your speakers. And at usual listening levels you might be right about the 0,5% you spoke of
.To get the best performance out of 6N6P or 6N30 they need over 100V over each triode and 20mA.
Glad you pointed out the input OP removal as this made me interested in the Hypex. I had before checked the Tripaths but there you are stuck with the internal input OP. But I will probably go for differential with good Lundahl transformers.
Attachments
You can get the Oem modules at Hypex but only if you are a developer or manifactory. This modules are not for reselling but only for selling in compleet amplifiers. The normal UCD400st or hg have the same possibillities just another layout. If you do not use the inputbuffer like i do just buy the ST version.sek said:
Lars , thanks for you explaination. I treid 120V ( +60V, -60V with floating ground) but there was no difference in sound.
Ceibal, sorry no pictures.
Hi Koifarm,
As you are probably the only one who tests openly a non commercial stage, may be you could advise...
I tried simple buffer just to see what result could be. It was good but non surprisingly gain was not enough. The Buffer I used has no DC offset so it didn't cause any trouble with UCD180ST...
According to you what is the maximum DC offset an UCD input stage can have ?
As you are probably the only one who tests openly a non commercial stage, may be you could advise...
I tried simple buffer just to see what result could be. It was good but non surprisingly gain was not enough
. The Buffer I used has no DC offset so it didn't cause any trouble with UCD180ST... According to you what is the maximum DC offset an UCD input stage can have ?
Hypex UcD400 5 channel amplifier
Looks like you will need two of these power supplies according to Red Rocks Audio. Do you need to do anything special to power three amps? Also, I noticed that Red Rocks amplifier modules are only $59 for their 200watt amp. Have you or anyone you know tried these modules? If so, how do they compare to the Hypex amps?
Looks like you will need two of these power supplies according to Red Rocks Audio. Do you need to do anything special to power three amps? Also, I noticed that Red Rocks amplifier modules are only $59 for their 200watt amp. Have you or anyone you know tried these modules? If so, how do they compare to the Hypex amps?
Ceibal, you do not have to do anything special to power 3 amps on one power supply. If you use the amps in hometheater setup 1000 Watt is enough. For professional audio( bands/ studio ) then use 2 supplies.
No i do not have any experience with the amps from Redrock. Because i pay less for the Hypex amps and i need to bypass the inputbuffer of the amp. As i know only hypex has that.
You can also connect 3 UCD400( +/- 60V) and 2 UCD180(+/-30V) to the Redrock SMPS. 3 channel front and 2 channel back.
No i do not have any experience with the amps from Redrock. Because i pay less for the Hypex amps and i need to bypass the inputbuffer of the amp. As i know only hypex has that.
You can also connect 3 UCD400( +/- 60V) and 2 UCD180(+/-30V) to the Redrock SMPS. 3 channel front and 2 channel back.
Hi Koifarm,
Hope you don´t mind me recommending a better driver for you very fine amp. The combination Redrock and Hypex seems to be a winner!
As I understand you like SRPP and you like 6N6P. With this driver you will also have the possibility go balanced if you want.
THD will be low even at 400W/4ohm and probably well below 0,1% at normal listening levels.
If you want play around a little, I recommend downloading LTSpice from www.linear.com. I can then mail you the files and models you need.
Hope you don´t mind me recommending a better driver for you very fine amp. The combination Redrock and Hypex seems to be a winner!
As I understand you like SRPP and you like 6N6P
. With this driver you will also have the possibility go balanced if you want. THD will be low even at 400W/4ohm and probably well below 0,1% at normal listening levels.
If you want play around a little, I recommend downloading LTSpice from www.linear.com. I can then mail you the files and models you need.
Attachments
Just change the file name from *.txt to *.asc and open in LTSpice. You do not need anything else to try it.
You can mail me if you want other models or help.
Right-click on ".tran 0 100......" to get AC analysis or DC.
In "Transient" change 100m to 10m. 100m is only used in distortion simulations.
Right-click on "V2" to change input voltage.
Also note OPamp is ideal so clipping will not be there. Also note waveform voltages are peak.
About muting I guess it is only needed when you use coupling caps. I will use transformers to get full galvanic isolation and to get rid of the caps.
You can mail me if you want other models or help.
Right-click on ".tran 0 100......" to get AC analysis or DC.
In "Transient" change 100m to 10m. 100m is only used in distortion simulations.
Right-click on "V2" to change input voltage.
Also note OPamp is ideal so clipping will not be there. Also note waveform voltages are peak.
About muting I guess it is only needed when you use coupling caps. I will use transformers to get full galvanic isolation and to get rid of the caps.
Lars , thanks for the files and i played around with it.
The diff. file looks great. But when i use differencial input i do not need to convert from a sym. to sym. because my cd player has sym.out. But i must ad a second volumecontrol board.
The SE file does not work here, something about not reconising the LED.
I like the Redrock SMPS. No humm, no hiss, a lot of power.
The diff. file looks great. But when i use differencial input i do not need to convert from a sym. to sym. because my cd player has sym.out. But i must ad a second volumecontrol board.
The SE file does not work here, something about not reconising the LED.
I like the Redrock SMPS. No humm, no hiss, a lot of power.
Hi Koifarm,
I am the wrong computer at the moment. A LED can be added by pasting these models last in ...lib/cmp/standard.dio .
.MODEL REDLED1.7 D (IS=93.2P RS=42M N=3.73 BV=4 IBV=10U
+ CJO=2.97P VJ=.75 M=.333 TT=4.32U)
.MODEL REDLED2.1 D (IS=93.1P RS=42M N=4.61 BV=4 IBV=10U
+ CJO=2.97P VJ=.75 M=.333 TT=4.32U)
I am not sure I follow your symm discussion, more info please !
I am the wrong computer at the moment. A LED can be added by pasting these models last in ...lib/cmp/standard.dio .
.MODEL REDLED1.7 D (IS=93.2P RS=42M N=3.73 BV=4 IBV=10U
+ CJO=2.97P VJ=.75 M=.333 TT=4.32U)
.MODEL REDLED2.1 D (IS=93.1P RS=42M N=4.61 BV=4 IBV=10U
+ CJO=2.97P VJ=.75 M=.333 TT=4.32U)
I am not sure I follow your symm discussion, more info please
!
To drive the UcD400 differential without buffer you still need a symmetrical driver that can deliver 9Vrms into 3,6kohm.
Checked your Shanling-mod link. Can not find anything about symm output there? Maybe you have an updated schematic?
By the way, IMHO the best balanced volume-control you could get is a TVC.
Checked your Shanling-mod link. Can not find anything about symm output there? Maybe you have an updated schematic?
By the way, IMHO the best balanced volume-control you could get is a TVC.
The symmmetrical tubeoutput are 4 identical SRPP tubeoutput stages connected to the I/V resistors on the DAC output. I have 2 BB PCM1792 Dac's. One for left the other for rightchannel. Just connect one tubestage to the + signal output the other to the - signal output. Do the same for the other channel to the other DAC.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi again Koifarm,
Nice looking player!
Why all this gain on a DAC that puts out almost 0,5V balanced with passive I/V ? You could as well take the balanced signal directly from the DAC if you a add balanced tube-inputs to your Ucd-hybrid.
In your hybrid-UcD the input isn´t balanced at the moment, how have you done so far? Seems like you have an awful lot of gain in your system.
By the way, how much current do you run through the SRPPs? Guess you use 6N6P..........
Nice looking player!
Why all this gain on a DAC that puts out almost 0,5V balanced with passive I/V
? You could as well take the balanced signal directly from the DAC if you a add balanced tube-inputs to your Ucd-hybrid. In your hybrid-UcD the input isn´t balanced at the moment, how have you done so far? Seems like you have an awful lot of gain in your system.
By the way, how much current do you run through the SRPPs? Guess you use 6N6P..........
Lars i have several possibillities.
Connect CD player symmetrical to unbufferd UCD. Just one srpp and one Capacitor in the audiopath. Volume control on the CD player.
Connect CD player with RCA to stepvolumecontrol/ SRPP buffer/ UCD i have 2 srppstages and 2 capacitors in the audiopath
I like first setup best. But a have also to swith to my audioclient with tubeoutput who has 1 Vrms output. So i am still changing the setup.
At the end something like this will come out:
- Streaming client with symmetrical tube output at 9 Vrms.
- CD player with symmetrical tube output at 9 Vrms
- Symmetrical volumecontrol/ inputselect to unbuffered UCD400.
Connect CD player symmetrical to unbufferd UCD. Just one srpp and one Capacitor in the audiopath. Volume control on the CD player.
Connect CD player with RCA to stepvolumecontrol/ SRPP buffer/ UCD i have 2 srppstages and 2 capacitors in the audiopath
I like first setup best. But a have also to swith to my audioclient with tubeoutput who has 1 Vrms output. So i am still changing the setup.
At the end something like this will come out:
- Streaming client with symmetrical tube output at 9 Vrms.
- CD player with symmetrical tube output at 9 Vrms
- Symmetrical volumecontrol/ inputselect to unbuffered UCD400.
.
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