Panasonic class D amps - Page 11

jkeny · 31st January 2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Maybe I will try some Rubycon ZL or Jensen 4 poles next or just add more caps of the same type (ZE or ZX caps) inline

eld, where can you purchase these Panasonic ZE or XE capacitors?

I was also thinking of a way to easily test different configurations of the output capacitor by removing the existing one & putting in its place two single pin dip sockets which would allow easy placement & removal of capacitors + bypass.

If done for one channel, this could be used to finalise a suitable output cap configuraton!

eld · 31st January 2008, 01:39 PM

Jkeny,

Partstore.com is where I found them, but the prices are at retail values.

I just ordered some 1000uF 50V Nichicon Muse KZ and Elna Silmic II to test them out. I will keep you updated once I get a chance to test them.

ZE Cap

XE Cap

jkeny · 31st January 2008, 02:04 PM

Jeez, eld,
These are expensive - $7 each. It doesn't even give the capacitance/voltage - I presume they are the 50V/1000uF caps used in the amp?

Is there anywhere to find a datasheet - they would want to be good for the price. Google search finds nothing!

eld · 31st January 2008, 02:49 PM

Jkeny,

They are the exact caps in receiver (1000uF/50V). I have put in a suggestion to Digi-Key to carry them if possible. I cannot find the data sheet as well.

The ZE is larger than the XE and probably have a little more punch, I guess that is why it's in the PSU. I'm not sure if the XR45 have the FM or ZE caps in the output stage, but they have been replace by the XE. Boulder Cables indicated they sound better than what's in the XR45 so it's definitely an upgrade. It would be nice to have the schematic to the XR45 as well, do you know if you can find it?

jkeny · 31st January 2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

They are the exact caps in receiver (1000uF/50V)

But I thought you said they were downgraded to 820uF in the XR57?

Do you know any other mods Boulder have done?

I'm sure I can get the XR45 Service Manual - I will return

Edit: If I can't get it from sharefx.com for free then you can get it along with SA-XR10 & others from manualsparadise.com for $11 for each manual

eld · 31st January 2008, 03:42 PM

Jkeny,

Sorry if I'm causing confusion. The critical caps, XE and ZE, are still the same on the two models (Water caps and PS caps).

The 820uF/50v change I was refering to are on the speaker board, shunting to ground for each positive and negative speaker line. I think these are the filter caps?

BTW, I forgot to meantion that the Silmic II I order are 470uF/50v so I have to double up to compare.

jkeny · 31st January 2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

The 820uF/50v change I was refering to are on the speaker board

Ah, that's what was confusing me - these caps are actually 820pF not uF - enough for EMI supression.

I thought you were talking about the output caps next to inductor?

As I said, I would be concerned about peeling off traces during the many soldering on & taking off different caps in the output section - did you ever consider the idea of putting hollow pins into the holes where the caps were & fitting your cap leads into these pins much like a dip op-amp sits into a dip socket?

eld · 31st January 2008, 04:33 PM

The parts list almost everything as pF, even the power supply and smoothing caps. I should have stuck to the schematic values. Thanks! Now I can see changing them to MKP a worthwhile endeavor.

The output caps (next to the inductors) and PS caps are still the same (XE and ZE respectively).

The hollow pins are a great idea for testing the caps. I was actually thinking of putting test wires in where the ZE caps used to sit and have all the comparison caps on one outboard. Testing would be done by moving the wires from the each set of caps. What do you think?

jkeny · 31st January 2008, 05:21 PM

Yep, That's a good idea but the length of wire plus the wire on the board to the caps may give rise to added inductance, small but might confuse results? I don't really know!

Just don't strip off the copper trace!! How good are the pcbs, maybe you can say when you tried removing cap!

I order the XR57 from J&R - open box @ $218 + shipping & Tax $254 - just saw I could have got it from AMAZON for 230$ free shipping but this was black - the one I ordered was silver, my preference. Still I'm a happy bunny! Shipped it to my friend's audiophile bro-in-law, he will test & listen for a month & I get it end of Feb!

eld · 1st February 2008, 03:16 PM

Nice, jkeny.

I have a silver one too. It looks pretty decent for a budget receiver. I hope your friend's bro-in-law remembers that the stock unit has a lot of compromises built in.

Update on the rewiring, I got a chance to changed out the stock binding posts and updated the wires to 14 AWG long grain copper. The wires are coming directly from the main board to the pure copper posts. I only got a chance to listen to it for about 5 mins this morning, but the change was not subtle! Well worth the effort. BTW, You will need those filter caps. I will update once I get a chance to listen to it some more and will try to post some pics.

Cheers,

Eld

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31st January 2008, 01:39 PM	#102
eld diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas	Jkeny, Partstore.com is where I found them, but the prices are at retail values. I just ordered some 1000uF 50V Nichicon Muse KZ and Elna Silmic II to test them out. I will keep you updated once I get a chance to test them. ZE Cap XE Cap

31st January 2008, 02:04 PM	#103
jkeny Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Dublin	Jeez, eld, These are expensive - $7 each. It doesn't even give the capacitance/voltage - I presume they are the 50V/1000uF caps used in the amp? Is there anywhere to find a datasheet - they would want to be good for the price. Google search finds nothing!

31st January 2008, 02:49 PM	#104
eld diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas	Jkeny, They are the exact caps in receiver (1000uF/50V). I have put in a suggestion to Digi-Key to carry them if possible. I cannot find the data sheet as well. The ZE is larger than the XE and probably have a little more punch, I guess that is why it's in the PSU. I'm not sure if the XR45 have the FM or ZE caps in the output stage, but they have been replace by the XE. Boulder Cables indicated they sound better than what's in the XR45 so it's definitely an upgrade. It would be nice to have the schematic to the XR45 as well, do you know if you can find it?

31st January 2008, 03:42 PM	#106
eld diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas	Jkeny, Sorry if I'm causing confusion. The critical caps, XE and ZE, are still the same on the two models (Water caps and PS caps). The 820uF/50v change I was refering to are on the speaker board, shunting to ground for each positive and negative speaker line. I think these are the filter caps? BTW, I forgot to meantion that the Silmic II I order are 470uF/50v so I have to double up to compare.

31st January 2008, 04:33 PM	#108
eld diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas	The parts list almost everything as pF, even the power supply and smoothing caps. I should have stuck to the schematic values. Thanks! Now I can see changing them to MKP a worthwhile endeavor. The output caps (next to the inductors) and PS caps are still the same (XE and ZE respectively). The hollow pins are a great idea for testing the caps. I was actually thinking of putting test wires in where the ZE caps used to sit and have all the comparison caps on one outboard. Testing would be done by moving the wires from the each set of caps. What do you think?

31st January 2008, 05:21 PM	#109
jkeny Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Dublin	Yep, That's a good idea but the length of wire plus the wire on the board to the caps may give rise to added inductance, small but might confuse results? I don't really know! Just don't strip off the copper trace!! How good are the pcbs, maybe you can say when you tried removing cap! I order the XR57 from J&R - open box @ $218 + shipping & Tax $254 - just saw I could have got it from AMAZON for 230$ free shipping but this was black - the one I ordered was silver, my preference. Still I'm a happy bunny! Shipped it to my friend's audiophile bro-in-law, he will test & listen for a month & I get it end of Feb!

1st February 2008, 03:16 PM	#110
eld diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas	Nice, jkeny. I have a silver one too. It looks pretty decent for a budget receiver. I hope your friend's bro-in-law remembers that the stock unit has a lot of compromises built in. Update on the rewiring, I got a chance to changed out the stock binding posts and updated the wires to 14 AWG long grain copper. The wires are coming directly from the main board to the pure copper posts. I only got a chance to listen to it for about 5 mins this morning, but the change was not subtle! Well worth the effort. BTW, You will need those filter caps. I will update once I get a chance to listen to it some more and will try to post some pics. Cheers, Eld