Hi all,
May be this question has been asked a lot of times.
However, I need your experiments more than the others.
- I have never listened a Class T amp until now, but I read a lot of good reviews about them.
- But I've listened a lot of gainclones (but not with audio grade components) made of me.
Now I need an ultimate amplifier for my living room and my Wharfedale Diamond 9.6s..
The question is:
Should I make another gainclone but with dual mono design and audio grade components?
Or should I buy a 41Hz kit (especially Amp10 or Amp4)?
What do you say as your experiences?
May be this question has been asked a lot of times.
However, I need your experiments more than the others.
- I have never listened a Class T amp until now, but I read a lot of good reviews about them.
- But I've listened a lot of gainclones (but not with audio grade components) made of me.
Now I need an ultimate amplifier for my living room and my Wharfedale Diamond 9.6s..
The question is:
Should I make another gainclone but with dual mono design and audio grade components?
Or should I buy a 41Hz kit (especially Amp10 or Amp4)?
What do you say as your experiences?
built a dual mono inverted gainclone with "good" parts about 4 years ago and enjoyed it. About 2 years ago I bought a "Charlize" kit from diyparadise. I much prefered the Charlize, it just sounded better to me.
I wanted more of the Charlize sound so bought 2 Amp5 kits from 41HZ and did a dual mono amp. Very similar to Charlize but of course more power although I think Charlize may be a bit more resolving. Overall however I prefer the Amp 5 and it is bone stock whereas the Charlize has aircore output inductors and "fancy" input caps and is powered by an SMPS now. I tried a battery with Charlize originally but it lacks the dynamics I find with an active power supply.
I have since built a Truepath form 41HZ but have not completed it, waiting on ancillary components.
I have also built several tube amps PP and SET with a host of different tubes and topologies and AB SS amps.
By and large, I prefer the Tripath amps. The only amp I have that to my ears is in the league of the Tripath amps is a Transcendent SE OTL that I built and that only has 1.5W/channel.
I have since been flirting with the idea of a higher powered OTL but have not done so yet
So that is all in my opinion, yours may very well be different
I wanted more of the Charlize sound so bought 2 Amp5 kits from 41HZ and did a dual mono amp. Very similar to Charlize but of course more power although I think Charlize may be a bit more resolving. Overall however I prefer the Amp 5 and it is bone stock whereas the Charlize has aircore output inductors and "fancy" input caps and is powered by an SMPS now. I tried a battery with Charlize originally but it lacks the dynamics I find with an active power supply.
I have since built a Truepath form 41HZ but have not completed it, waiting on ancillary components.
I have also built several tube amps PP and SET with a host of different tubes and topologies and AB SS amps.
By and large, I prefer the Tripath amps. The only amp I have that to my ears is in the league of the Tripath amps is a Transcendent SE OTL that I built and that only has 1.5W/channel.
I have since been flirting with the idea of a higher powered OTL but have not done so yet
So that is all in my opinion, yours may very well be different
Of course, its all about ear taste! However, there should be a comparison by the meaning of other things than the technical definitions. Like; airy, boomy, articulation, ambience, detail etc...
In fact I dont like the LM3886 and LM4780 s sound, they have not detailed sounds. But I like the LM4702 + lateral MOSFET s.. I cannot identify the sound of it. However its better than the others.
However, I am seeking a better sound. Last months I made a SE headphone amplifier with OPA134 + IRF510.. Its a quick and dirty work. But the sound is unbelievable. I have a Philips 805 and a Ultrasone DJ1 headphones. With both of them, the result is uncomparable with the speakers. So I cannot listen from speakers anymore.
In my future plans, I will make a tube amplifier. However its too early for that.
Now I need an amplifier as best as possible and with an acceptable cost of course.
And Amp4 looks me very strong alternative for now. In other hand, I have a lot of components for a LM3875 gainclone.
May you make a comparison with dual mono gainclone and Charlize by the meaning of channel seperation pls? Because I plan to but one Amp4 for stereo config. And I will use it with native components.
Thx.
In fact I dont like the LM3886 and LM4780 s sound, they have not detailed sounds. But I like the LM4702 + lateral MOSFET s.. I cannot identify the sound of it. However its better than the others.
However, I am seeking a better sound. Last months I made a SE headphone amplifier with OPA134 + IRF510.. Its a quick and dirty work. But the sound is unbelievable. I have a Philips 805 and a Ultrasone DJ1 headphones. With both of them, the result is uncomparable with the speakers. So I cannot listen from speakers anymore.
In my future plans, I will make a tube amplifier. However its too early for that.
Now I need an amplifier as best as possible and with an acceptable cost of course.
And Amp4 looks me very strong alternative for now. In other hand, I have a lot of components for a LM3875 gainclone.
May you make a comparison with dual mono gainclone and Charlize by the meaning of channel seperation pls? Because I plan to but one Amp4 for stereo config. And I will use it with native components.
Thx.
Dxvideo said:
I would suggest building a dual mono instrumentation amp with a couple of LM4562s and LM3875s. Have a look at this thread for some schematics of how I've done it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89753&highlight=
It's a little more complicated than a plain gainclone circuit but will give you more of the sound you are looking for. I've been listening to my pair for months now and really enjoy how they sound. I'm also very fond of the low power class d sound.
I've a 2020 t-amp board modded with boutique components.
I''ve also built an LM3875 gainclone, using standard components.
I found the 2020 amp to be dazzling at first, but it hasn't been a long-term love affair. There is something about the Gainclone that is just a bit more involving. That's not to say I think the tripath is bad -- on the contrary, it is fantastic value and sets the bar very high. I think in the end for me it seems a bit 'dry'.
At the moment I'm building a Pass mini Aleph around 10+wpc class A. Then when I'm feeling brave enough I'll try tubes.
I agree entirely with what has been said above -- it's all down to taste and I don't think you can go far wrong with either choice.
I''ve also built an LM3875 gainclone, using standard components.
I found the 2020 amp to be dazzling at first, but it hasn't been a long-term love affair. There is something about the Gainclone that is just a bit more involving. That's not to say I think the tripath is bad -- on the contrary, it is fantastic value and sets the bar very high. I think in the end for me it seems a bit 'dry'.
At the moment I'm building a Pass mini Aleph around 10+wpc class A. Then when I'm feeling brave enough I'll try tubes.
I agree entirely with what has been said above -- it's all down to taste and I don't think you can go far wrong with either choice.
I have compared a T-amp from 41Hz (amp3), a commercial class-d, a commercial gainclone, an old discrete SS(25watt), and a modded quad 405 clone. Unfortunately in the same sesion. All were run well within their ratings, ie at resonably modest listening levels.
They all sounded acceptable but different. My personal preference is the 405 followed by the T-amp, but I would not argue with a different choice. To me the gainclone was "warmer and fuzzier", the T-amp "clear but a bit cold", the 405 seemed more neutral. I felt the 405 and t-amp had better control of the speakers, which were multiways and not the easiest to drive.
Changing the speakers may well produce a different preference order, although the single "full-range" unit I tried with the gainclone and T-amp showed similar characteristics.
Other people have placed these in the reverse order, so its your choice.
They all sounded acceptable but different. My personal preference is the 405 followed by the T-amp, but I would not argue with a different choice. To me the gainclone was "warmer and fuzzier", the T-amp "clear but a bit cold", the 405 seemed more neutral. I felt the 405 and t-amp had better control of the speakers, which were multiways and not the easiest to drive.
Changing the speakers may well produce a different preference order, although the single "full-range" unit I tried with the gainclone and T-amp showed similar characteristics.
Other people have placed these in the reverse order, so its your choice.
I prefer the class T sound, but I can only compare it to class A/B amps, I have not heard a GC.
My set-up is a Trends 10.1 configured as a power amp with a NAD pre-amp, and Paradigm Monitor 3 speakers. I believe that these little amps sound better to my ears at least with a pre-amp. The NAD pre-amp adds depth and a really sweet liquidity to the soundfield. I have also found it's best to keep the treble flat, but I add a little bass as needed. Not that the Trends doesn't sound good by itself, but the sound is so much better with the NAD pre-amp!
Andrewbee, I also agree with you about the 12V battery, I have a 12V 7AH battery and I've compared the sound many times with the Trends SMPS and the battery just doesn't have the dynamics.
I have a Charlize amp that I haven't finished yet, I am looking forward to hearing it and comparing it to the Trends.
My set-up is a Trends 10.1 configured as a power amp with a NAD pre-amp, and Paradigm Monitor 3 speakers. I believe that these little amps sound better to my ears at least with a pre-amp. The NAD pre-amp adds depth and a really sweet liquidity to the soundfield. I have also found it's best to keep the treble flat, but I add a little bass as needed. Not that the Trends doesn't sound good by itself, but the sound is so much better with the NAD pre-amp!
Andrewbee, I also agree with you about the 12V battery, I have a 12V 7AH battery and I've compared the sound many times with the Trends SMPS and the battery just doesn't have the dynamics.
I have a Charlize amp that I haven't finished yet, I am looking forward to hearing it and comparing it to the Trends.
Tripath07 said:
I have the Trends too which I use with a Mapletree Line 3a pre. I also think that it sounds better with my tubed pre and resolution is not sacrificed.
I agree that a little 7AH battery will lack dynamics. Some have strung capacitors between the positive and negative terminals to increase dynamic ability so to handle the surges.
Here is an interesting link to explore. Check the Optima Yellow Top.
EDIT:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1140494870
Sorry about that! I forgot to paste.
--Roy
I have built both a 41Hz amp6 and a few gainclones, and like both designs a lot.
I modded a few sonic impact t-amps before building the amp6. The amp6 is much warmer sounding and has much better bass than the sonic impact, but both have a similar up-front sound.
To my ears, gainclones sound much less 'in your face' and less obviously exciting. They are less gripping at first listen but are more balanced and even-sounding overall.
It is similar to comparing Kylie (small, excitable, lot's of dazzle and glamor, slight lack of depth) to Audrey Hepburn (cool, considered, less in your face). I'm just more of an Audrey man...
At the end of the day, the best option will probably be dictated by loudspeaker choice.
I have settled on a gainclone in both my living room and kitchen, but the amp6 does a great job at my girlfriends house ;-)
I modded a few sonic impact t-amps before building the amp6. The amp6 is much warmer sounding and has much better bass than the sonic impact, but both have a similar up-front sound.
To my ears, gainclones sound much less 'in your face' and less obviously exciting. They are less gripping at first listen but are more balanced and even-sounding overall.
It is similar to comparing Kylie (small, excitable, lot's of dazzle and glamor, slight lack of depth) to Audrey Hepburn (cool, considered, less in your face). I'm just more of an Audrey man...
At the end of the day, the best option will probably be dictated by loudspeaker choice.
I have settled on a gainclone in both my living room and kitchen, but the amp6 does a great job at my girlfriends house ;-)
BWRX said:
That's a pretty interesting design. I even have most of the parts to try a non-smd version, although unfortunately I have LM3876's and my speakers are 4 ohm. Any take on whether a 3876 in your layout and +- 12V rails would be OK for 5-10W into 4 ohms? I have a bunch of Tripath stuff, but the idea of direct-coupling your differential setup to a Twisted Pear Opus and using the volume control built into the DAC is very attractive. (I've thought of the same thing with some UcD's, which I still may try).
Hi dwk.
LM3876's are just LM3875's with the mute function, but any power op amp should work fine (doesn't have to be from National).
+/-12V rails will be good for ~10W into 4 ohms. The lower voltage rails will be good because you can run the chip and the small op amp from the same supply. The lower voltage rails will also help keep the 38XX chips cooler, which is good since your speakers are 4 ohm nominal.
Direct coupling a balanced DAC to the differential inputs is the best way to go if you can do it. Most DACs should have no problem driving the high impedance inputs of a differential buffer stage. As you mentioned, this would also work very well with UcD's since they have the same high impedance differential buffer inputs.
LM3876's are just LM3875's with the mute function, but any power op amp should work fine (doesn't have to be from National).
+/-12V rails will be good for ~10W into 4 ohms. The lower voltage rails will be good because you can run the chip and the small op amp from the same supply. The lower voltage rails will also help keep the 38XX chips cooler, which is good since your speakers are 4 ohm nominal.
Direct coupling a balanced DAC to the differential inputs is the best way to go if you can do it. Most DACs should have no problem driving the high impedance inputs of a differential buffer stage. As you mentioned, this would also work very well with UcD's since they have the same high impedance differential buffer inputs.
BWRX said:
To be clear, my concern was whether the 3875 would be able to handle the 4 ohm load even with the reduced rails, rather than whether the topology would support it. Sounds like it's at least worth a try, although since the 3886 looks to only be $6 it may be worth picking some up.
It wasnt until I went back and looked that I realized that the instrumentation topology is more than a bit similar to the other Twisted Pear stuff - definately set up to go fully differential/direct coupled. This is much simpler than their full super-symetric design, though.
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