Hypex/Coldamp vs. TAG McLaren Power Amp

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Hello everyone,
I've been lurking for a while and the idea of consructing a 2 channel power amp based on either Hypex or Coldamp modules has caught my attention.

I currently use PC with an RME soundcard feeding a TAG Mclaren AV32R (DAC/pre) and 100x5 (power) using 4 channels to bi-amp my KLS9 derived speakers (upgraded to use Morel MDT30 tweeters).

I quite fancy a bit of DIY but I don't want waste time and money building something which, ultimately, won't be able to compete with the TAG power amp (I will keep the pre-amp). Can anyone give me any advice on how the Hypex or Coldamp modules might compare?

Thanks
Simon
 
SimonInd said:
They both seem very popular, especially the Hypex being used by Meridian, however I wondered if anyone had heard them alongside a decent (e.g. £2000) conventional solid state amp?


Well if you dig in some of the posts here you may find that quite a few people think that these amps are better than conventional amps.

Personally I have very good experience with UcD180 modules, I find them better sounding then my Accuphase E407. Try to find someone in your neighborhood who has them and listen if you are not sure.

Have fun

Gertjan
 
Each and every amp seem to sound different. I think the interaction between the amp and the load; speaker cable and speaker is very important. Maybe room modes interact (via the speakers acting as a microphone) with the feedback loop most amps uses.

The implementation of the class D modules is another factor to consider. Power supply, shielding and the length of the wire leads in the amp are some factors affecting performance. Building an amp yourself is a risk in that the sound of it is a bit unpredictable. To minimize the risk, try to listen to someone else´s amp, preferably in your system, then build a copy of this amp if you liked it.
Of course, building an amp in a standardized manner is a lower risk to be taken.
And of course; listening room acoustics and preferences in sound and musical taste also varies. As there are no perfect amps around it´s up to you which anomalies you can live with.

As my Tripath EB-TA0104 failed in one channel as I risened the rail voltage a bit ( but within its limit) I have made a temporary solution for the bass. I am triamping, and now I have used one channel of an expensive linear amp for one sub and a linear monoblock for the other sub. The difference sound-vise is really significant.
The class D amp was fuller and very good at sustained bass notes but seemed to mask some imperfections in the system. It had a great authority but its downsides showed up when I made the change.
Rhythmical patterns is better exposed with the linear amps, the music seems faster and I can hear more clearly how the bass and
bass-drum interact. I use an electronic crossover for the bass, thus I am able to set the level for the bass. Most interesting is that I perceive the middle frequencies and the highs differently now.

However, I have decided to repair the Tripath amp, it has some positive traits.
In no way do I say this differences are significant to all linear and class D amps. The point is that I didn´t predict the result in my case.

So in my opinion it´s hard to make predictions about how a certain amp will sound in your system. It´s more up to what risk you are prepared to take. Taking a risk can of course be rewarding!
 
The golden mean said:
Each and every amp seem to sound different. I think the interaction between the amp and the load; speaker cable and speaker is very important. Maybe room modes interact (via the speakers acting as a microphone) with the feedback loop most amps uses.

The implementation of the class D modules is another factor to consider. Power supply, shielding and the length of the wire leads in the amp are some factors affecting performance. Building an amp yourself is a risk in that the sound of it is a bit unpredictable. To minimize the risk, try to listen to someone else´s amp, preferably in your system, then build a copy of this amp if you liked it.
Of course, building an amp in a standardized manner is a lower risk to be taken.
And of course; listening room acoustics and preferences in sound and musical taste also varies. As there are no perfect amps around it´s up to you which anomalies you can live with.

As my Tripath EB-TA0104 failed in one channel as I risened the rail voltage a bit ( but within its limit) I have made a temporary solution for the bass. I am triamping, and now I have used one channel of an expensive linear amp for one sub and a linear monoblock for the other sub. The difference sound-vise is really significant.
The class D amp was fuller and very good at sustained bass notes but seemed to mask some imperfections in the system. It had a great authority but its downsides showed up when I made the change.
Rhythmical patterns is better exposed with the linear amps, the music seems faster and I can hear more clearly how the bass and
bass-drum interact. I use an electronic crossover for the bass, thus I am able to set the level for the bass. Most interesting is that I perceive the middle frequencies and the highs differently now.

However, I have decided to repair the Tripath amp, it has some positive traits.
In no way do I say this differences are significant to all linear and class D amps. The point is that I didn´t predict the result in my case.

So in my opinion it´s hard to make predictions about how a certain amp will sound in your system. It´s more up to what risk you are prepared to take. Taking a risk can of course be rewarding!


Exactly, without risk, no reward. And the more rewards you get the more risks you will take to get even more rewards.

Talking about a nice positive feedback loop here :)

Gertjan
 
Hi Golden,
I would like to think that you could modify the linear amp to improve it's bass grunt without losing the advantages it currently has. Yes, "fuller and very good at sustained bass notes" should be achievable.

Would experimentation to obtain the best of both technologies be worth the effort?
 
Hi Andrew,
I will use my energy to finish my way too ambitious speaker project. Sooner or later some amp mods will take place.
And as for transformers my system have about a total of 5000 VA. But capacitor in relation to transformers also counts.

The Tripath amp is build by one person for a friend of mine who in turn modified it from some hints given e.g. on this board. But using big Mundorff silverfoil in oil input capacitors and Caddock thickfilm power resistors for the input makes me a bit sceptical, along with some other modifications such as using chokes in the power supply. Of course, I have done some modifications as well, adding two more capacitors to the input, which in conjunction with raised gain for the amp should make it cut off very deep. I added some more caps for the power supply as well.

But I think it´s hard to exactly trace all mods, so I missed that the dead time was set to the lowest possible value. Standard for the board is 65nS and the lowest setting is 25nS. And using larger capacity Blackgates in critical bypass service, may introduce too much inductance? But surely, the same amp (even if it is built from modules) can offer a very different end result thus it´s even harder to make general statements.

Lesson maybe learned:xeye: If an amp works well, make an end to the modifications you implement. Some spare amps is good to have around. Build the amp from scratch and log your mods. And in the DIY society there are few amps that hasn´t been influenced by the concepts of their builders. You can maybe rate the average satisfaction with Hypex based or Coldamp based Class D amps , but even then there are a lot of bias, I think.

As for the original question, I would very much like to check some more class D and linear amps and learn more about them. I admit I have never heard a Hypex Class D amp or a Coldamp. I´m too inexperienced to say if Class D amps have much in common when it comes to sound quality. But I suspect they don´t according to what I have read.

If you want to compare amps, it´s possible to make a test rig and use the same power supply to test run just one channel provided the Class D modules require the same supply voltages.

As I own a electric bass, I know that the sound of it is partly up to what amp being used. Then there is the question: what is the right sound of the bass? Subjectivism may say there is no right sound.
In my mind, the best way to look at Hifi , is to consider the whole system including yourself. The mood you are in will naturally affect what you perceive. And a short listening at a fair or at someone else´s place has a lot of bias into it. Long time satisfaction is what we are looking for, isn´t it?
And then reliability also counts.

SimonInd, maybe you could specify what you miss in your current system and what you expect to achieve if you go the Class D road? And sorry for too much talk about modifications!
 
I used to sell the Tag kit and the 5x100 power amp was not one of their better products.

Not that it's a bad amp, it's just that their processors were the real attraction and the amps sold off the back of these rather than being particularly good when auditioned in isolation.

The best value combo was to spend more on a better tag processor and use this with a big rotel power amp, rather than buy a tag amp and have less to spend on the processor. The end result was far superior with the tag/rotel combo.

Back to your question, I have heard some hypex amps and would have no hesitation in recommending these as a significant upgrade over the 5x100.

Good luck!
 
From my modest experience, try Coldamp modules together with one of their switching power supplies. You will be greatly surprised (I have only tested SPS80, not SPS30). After hearing a SPS80+2xBP4078 simple setup, one of my friends sold his $10000 Mark Levinson Class-AB amplifier and moved to coldamp Class-D ;-)
 
Firstly, thanks to everyone for your input.

In answer to the 'what am I looking for' question I'd say you can always improve the treble and midrange and I'd like a bit more detail and punch in the bass - I used to have Epos ES22 speakers prior to the KLS9 derivatives and they had a drier but more rythmic bass. The KLS9s go deeper and have a fuller sound but the Epos's definately seemed punchier. I can't really complain though, I still get immense pleasure from listening to the system as it stands.

Having said that it sounds like building a 2-channel power amp seems a sensible experiment. If it's better than bi-amping with the TAG than I'll add a third channel for the centres speaker and the 5x100R can be moved out of the system.

So, Hypex or Coldamp? Linear or Switch-mode PSU? Time for some more research I think....

Thanks again everyone
Simon
 
Hi again Simonind,
Your Tag McLaren amp got good reviews in 2002 in the German mag Audiophile and in fact got the same verdict "Weltklasse" as their bigger brother 250x3R . There were six classes and Weltklasse (World Class) was the next one from the top.

In an English mag (Hi-fi World or Hifi News?) the 250x3 was beaten by a Bryston 4 BST.

In a group review of Class D amps in The Absolute sound , the most common complaint by the reviewers was that of a somewhat not-really-natural treble. Many Class D lovers here may object to this, but chances are that they might have adapted to the somewhat different rendering. ;)

I just read a review of the Coldamp by the Oslo audio society, that was positive; all three reviewers had something good to say about them. And if one of them didn´t thought that the Coldamp reached the snow-clad tops that Karan 270 (a very expensive linear amp) did, he is probably right.
Here´s a link, but the text is in Norwegian.
http://www.oslo-audio-society.com/coldamp.html

Norwegian isn´t my natural language, but one reviewer, sceptical as he was because of former encounters with Class D amps ( that he felt sounded grey and opaque, wrote that he didn´t got a hot ;) longing for his ordinary amps, 110 W tube monoblocks, even after using the Coldamp for a week!
But to be honest, I don´t think anyone of them regarded Coldamp to be the best they heard. One wrote that listning to them made him think if ít´s necessary to buy anything more expensive, and he concluded; maybe if you have a lot of money.
This is a very free translation and members from Norway may object to it! :cool:

Regards
Håkan
Sweden
 
For anyone that might be interested, I went for two coldamp modules and an SPS80 PSU. I'm still in the process of putting it in a nice box but I'm delighted with the result.

The sound is fuller than the TAG, more bass: deeper and better controlled. The treble is very smooth and the whole presentation seems more 'musical' - i.e. it get's your foot tapping. It also seems better at coping with average or poor recordings thus making my entire CD collection more enjoyable.

Once I've put it together I'll post a photo.

Cheers
Simon
 
Hi Simon,
nice to see that you are satisfied with the new amp. A drawback with TagMacLaren was that when they acquired Audiolab, they almost stopped making R&D which had been an important activity at the Audiolab Company (which now is a brand once more with a new owner).

Coldamp is probably quite a different company and it´s fine to see that good amps can be made at prices that are reasonable.

Regards
Håkan
 
I thought it was IAG (the current owners) that stopped R&D and TAG that did a fair bit of it? After all they released a load of AV processors, CD/DVD players and speakers whilst they were owners.

IAG on the other hand have just re-badged some of the cheaper models from the TAG range as Audiolab.

I can't really fault the TAG gear, it's well put together and sounds very good, especially given it's an AV rather than a purist product. Originally it was probably a bit over-priced however I bought it at a discount when the company was sold to IAG.

Value for money wise the coldamp modules are in a different league but you do have to wire them up before you can hear them and that's not for everyone....
 
My source of information was the well respected Norwegian magazine Fidelity (nr 3 2007) where a CD, preamp and poweramp from the new line of Audiolab products were reviewed.
In the article there is the history of the Audiolab company being told, from the beginning "Philip Swift who now owns and runs the
Spendor Company founded the Audiolab company together with Derek Scotland and their first product was...

Roots were in the former Cambridge Systems Technology...

...Udo Zucker and the TagMacLaren company bought the company in 1998...but TAG slowly run into financial problems as they didn´t continue the innovative development that had been the essence of the Audiolab company, they (TAG) instead focused on multichannel gear and the trade name didn´t hit or penetrated the market as well as Audiolab had done. ... At last IAG (International Audio Group) acquired the company and reintroduced the Audiolab brand. (Of course manufacturing is now taking place in China).

My comment: TAG may very well have used consultants in the development of their multichannel products. That is the strategy of many companies and e.g. Swiss Goldmund used it to a great extent in the beginning. Most consultants are forbidden to declare who they have worked for.

TAG made the mistake, I think, in that they neither focused on "real" life-style products that could compete with B&O, nor did they focus on real good sound that could impress on the audiophile market. Their effort was not wholehearted and the market punished them. I remember the time when their products were sold at real low discounted prices after the collapse.
 
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