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Old 1st November 2007, 12:32 PM   #111
KP11520 is offline KP11520  United States
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Hi Dave,

Well maybe you were biased to the Auricaps but that is OK. You were more than fair with every assessment. If the Auricaps remained on the top, then that's where they still belong. Like I said before, many with a lot of experience put them there too. The only one that gives the Auricap a run is the Obbligato by the few who have tried them, they really aren't mainstream yet. Now the question is, is there a number 2 and 3 and 4, etc.? That may be harder because , like you said, they each have something special and my number 1 and 2 might be different from yours. Especially in my application, where my CD Player is kind of cold and sterile and might just need a little exaggerated warmth (that is why the obbligatos might be better than the Auricaps in my situation, but that is a MIGHT). We will see over the next few weeks!

Yeah, we got hosed here this past Summer. The Blue Claws were tiny (even in August) and not worth the work to eat them. But I understand they sent them all to you guys. Lobster was also harder to get and prices went crazy. Looks like shellfish might be a good investment move. Maybe I will hermetically seal up the "Burn in Crab" and sell it, in mint condition, in a few years and buy a vacation house with the money! I don't want to eat it just yet, I used silver solder and I know that would break my teeth. But that is better that Tin/Lead solder, at least I won't get lead poisoning and who needs teeth anyway?

Regards//Keith
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Old 2nd November 2007, 05:10 PM   #112
Davet is offline Davet  United States
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Default WIMA 3.3 MFD

I listened to the WIMA 3.3 MFD Burned-In Caps (BIC) which had been burned in for 96+ hours compared to the same caps with no (zero) time on them at all. The edginess of the Non-burned-In Caps (NIC) in the upper frequencies is not as pronounced as it was when I first listened to the 2.2 MFD WIMAs when making the same comparison.

It may have been my ears but the WIMAS don't sound that much different between NIC and BIC. There is a very subtle edginess in the highs of the NIC. This would not really stand out if I had not tested other caps.

There is just a little more bottom with the 3.3 MFDs, than with the 2.2 MFDs. The balance from high to low seems to better proportioned with the 3.3s. The does not seem to be as much air around the performers as with some other caps, but nothing is lost in presentation. Longer time in my system may mellow them even more.

Because of the bass performance I listened to Verve's Jimmy Smith's Compact Jazz CD. This is a performance that has bass drum and a Hammond organ, which I was concentrating on and a jazz orchestra. These caps really showed off here. The undulating bass from the organ is felt and the punched accent of the bass drum comes through loud and clear. The sound stage is broad (really broad) and layered from front to rear. Localization of the performers is superb.

I prefer the 3.3 WIMAs just a little over that of the 2.2s. For one who does not want to take the roller coaster ride of burning in capacitors I would suggest the WIMAS either 2.2 or 3.3 MFD. They yield a clean detailed presentation. These caps are physically tall, but will easily fit on a TA-10.1 PCB, but it may require a larger chassis to house the caps. They are not as large as any of the Obbligatos, but sizable nonetheless.

The recommendations for use of the WIMAs 2.2 MFD earlier in this thread hold true for this cap as well. I have no real feel for cost or shipping constraints for these caps.

I apologize for limiting distributors in the 2.2 MFD to the USA. That was narrow focused on my behalf, for I was trying to get a cost for the review. WIMAs are manufactured in Germany and they should be available from distributors worldwide.

These were 10% tolerance 250 volt units. The BICs measured 3.25 and 3.32 MFDs. The NICs measured 3.30 and 3.32. Next time I will measure the caps before I burn them in such that I will have better matched pairs.

WIMA Distribution WebPAge
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Old 3rd November 2007, 05:42 AM   #113
dweekie is offline dweekie  United States
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Has anyone messed around with cap orientation? I'm curious if changes are noticeable by anyone else. Obbligatos seem the same both directions to me, but the Radioshack caps definitely sound different. Maybe it's just me....
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Old 3rd November 2007, 08:38 AM   #114
dweekie is offline dweekie  United States
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BTW, the radioshack caps seem right to me when the signal goes from the left side of the cap to the right, assuming the label faces you. This is in a Charlize.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 03:15 PM   #115
KP11520 is offline KP11520  United States
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Dweekie,

I always wondered about that and I also wondered if burning them in both ways 50/50 has any impact too!

How do you rate the ones tested (without any parrallel bypassing caps)?

Regards//Keith
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Old 3rd November 2007, 04:29 PM   #116
Davet is offline Davet  United States
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Dweekie,

In my testing I oriented all the caps the same way. All of the test caps were oriented the same way you did for your RS caps; with the writing facing up the left lead was input and the right lead was output.

Quote:
Originally posted by dweekie
Has anyone messed around with cap orientation? I'm curious if changes are noticeable by anyone else. ..... Maybe it's just me....
Capacitor orientation difference is a test I may try to undertake while setting up for some other test. I will immediately, try it with the RS caps and let you know.

I have a DPDT switch (not being used) already mounted on the test bed which could be used to reverse the orientation of the cap on one channel. To do it for both channels I would have to add another switch, which I already own. If the RS cap test yields an apparent difference I will make the adaptation and publish subsequent results.

I was glad to read you tried the Radio Shack caps and that they seem to a least be doing the job. These caps were, IMO, the unexpected gems that came out of the testing.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 04:32 PM   #117
Davet is offline Davet  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by KP11520
I always wondered about that and I also wondered if burning them in both ways 50/50 has any impact too!
Keith,

As to the burning-in caps in both directions, that will require quite a bit of time and patience. I have a Hagermann cable burner which I may try to set up for such an experiment. You may have to remind me to try it at some later point.

I believe the use of Panomaniac's circuit achieves this to some degree.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 04:39 PM   #118
KT is offline KT  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by dweekie
BTW, the radioshack caps seem right to me when the signal goes from the left side of the cap to the right, assuming the label faces you. This is in a Charlize.
I've noticed a definite difference in sound presentation by reversing the orientation of signal caps. Out of the caps I've tested, the TRT Dynamicaps stand out in my mind as exhibiting the most varitation, to my ear, though just about every signal cap I've tried has, in my exerience, shown a notable difference when flipped.

As I was going through the process of figuring this out, I would often see references to certain caps sounding preferable with either the outer or inner winding of the foil pointed in the direction of the signal flow. I would also see recommendations based on a cap sounding preferable when either the outer or inner winding of the foil was oriented in the direction of the lowest ground potential.

I know that with the non-polar Blackgate N these two concerns coincide regarding inner/outer foil orientation: one of the legs, the shorter or longer, I can't remember which, should face the direction of the signal flow for best sonics, and this orientation also coincides with the way one should orient it to ground potential.

My question with the Tripath based amps is that since they have a biasing voltage of 2.some volts on the downstream side of the signal flow, the lowest ground potential would actually be facing toward the source. With the Blackgate N, this actually means that if one were to orient it for best sonics towards ground potential, it would be the reverse of what is recommended for best sonics in regard to direction of signal flow. Which is the correct way to orient it in this case?

If someone has done a comparison of the BG Ns or any of the other caps, please let us know. In particular, I'm interested in playing with the Radio Shack caps and was wondering if anyone has determined any sort of directionality preference for this cap in a circuit without a biasing voltage, what that directionality might be, and whether placing it in a circuit with a biasing voltage, like the Tripath circuits, reversed that directionality in regards to best sonics. Whew!

Best,
KT
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Old 3rd November 2007, 07:41 PM   #119
ravon is offline ravon  Netherlands
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Has anyone on this forum ever tried to perform an ABX test to find if the differences between different coupling capacitors are audible?

I'm asking this because recent listening tests of a limited number of different coupling capacitors performed by people on a Dutch audio forum has shown that the differences - which are easily measurable - are not audible.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 10:25 PM   #120
KP11520 is offline KP11520  United States
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Hi Dave,

This is good, now we are starting to beat this topic to death. This is where anything goes and we will all be surprised to the additional things we find out.

Yes Panomaniac's burn in circuit (ala the Stone Tablet and Burn in Crab) can achieve this but one direction at a time! So If you want to burn a pair of caps for 200 hours, 100 with the flow left to right and 100 hours with the flow right to left. Then test with the direction both ways in the audio equipment you are modding before making it permanent. This will obviously add more steps if more than one pair of Caps are being auditioned! YIKES!

KT, is this phenomenon more about type of caps? Each type has a different impact. Say, Electrolytics are most pronounced, films are moderately pronounced and oils no affect at all, something along these lines?

ravon, do you mean the opposite? Where they can hear the difference but not measure any difference? Different manufacturers or the same one but just different caps (several pairs of the same values)?

Regards//Keith
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