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Old 13th January 2007, 08:25 PM   #1
mateo88 is offline mateo88  United States
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Default BPA possible with TDA2030?

Is it possible to run 4 TDA2030's in bridge-parallel off of 12v? The datasheet only has a schematic available for bridged with a split supply.

The only part I need to add is a resistor from inverting input of one chip to the output of the other to bridge them, correct? Or, is it not even possible to bridge off of a single supply?
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Old 14th January 2007, 10:16 PM   #2
mateo88 is offline mateo88  United States
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Ok, I guess I answered my own question. I'll post in case someone searches and can't find an answer, though.

Yes, bridging can be done on a single supply very easily. I used Rod Elliott's "Simplest Ever Amplifier Bridging" article, here. I only finished one bridged amplifier, but I'm planning on running two bridged amplifiers in parallel. Hopefully this configuration will give me around 30 watts into a 4 ohm load off of 12v, using 4 tda2030 chips.
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Old 15th January 2007, 01:35 PM   #3
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I donīt think this will work.
At 12V single supply the bridged circuit will deliver 5W to a 4 ohm load.
Output power of an ideal bridged amplifier will be:
Usupply*Usupply/(2*Rload)
in most real world circuits amplifier output will not reach the supply voltages.
For TDA2030 Usupply in the upper equation must be decreased by appr. 6V.
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Old 15th January 2007, 04:23 PM   #4
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Default Re: BPA possible with TDA2030?

Quote:
Originally posted by mateo88
Is it possible to run 4 TDA2030's in bridge-parallel off of 12v? The datasheet only has a schematic available for bridged with a split supply.

The only part I need to add is a resistor from inverting input of one chip to the output of the other to bridge them, correct? Or, is it not even possible to bridge off of a single supply?

It is possible - especially to parallel, to increase current.
But won't give more effect, in itself.
The true limit is 12V. (actually a couple of volt less than 12)
And not so much TDA2030 in this case.

This decide max Watt into a load.

To increase sound effect, you need to lower load.
For example parallel two 4 Ohms speakers.
This will give total load 2 Ohm

Theoretical max effect +/-6 Volt into 2 Ohm=
(U**2) / (2 x Ohm)
6 x 6 / 2 x 2 = 36/4 = 9 Watt RMS

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Old 15th January 2007, 04:36 PM   #5
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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A smart way to try to improve performance
of TDA2030
is to add a couple of power transistors.

When the Power transistors takes care of higher currents output
the load TDA2030 itself has to drive is lower ( for example < 1 Watt ).
This makes distortion lower.

Normally The higher effect a chip will put out, the higher distortion.

------------------------

This is for general use of TDA2030. At normal voltage supply levels.
Maybe not needed very much at the low voltage of 12V.

If you want to see a schematic of this,
you can have a look at some posts by me and others, 1 year ago, in Chip Amps forum:

There is also a schematic with same princip, using TDA2040.
TDA2040 is improved TDA2030.
TDA2050 is even better!
gainclone with output stage - Using Help from Power Transistors



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Old 16th January 2007, 01:59 AM   #6
mateo88 is offline mateo88  United States
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Interesting schematics, I might give one a shot soon.

So bridging two tda2030's running at 12v will not increase the output into an 8 ohm load?
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Old 16th January 2007, 11:04 AM   #7
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of course!
bridging increases output power, in this case from merely nothing to 3,5W or so.
Regards
Juergen
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Old 16th January 2007, 01:24 PM   #8
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by mateo88
Interesting schematics, I might give one a shot soon.

So bridging two tda2030's running at 12v will not increase the output into an 8 ohm load?
Bridging will increase power - theoretically 4 x power watt.
Generally we should avoid paralleling Chips, at close max voltage power supply.
Because they are not made for such high currents output.
Bridging is like double Power Supply Voltage.

This is why we generally should think before recommend Bridging of chips.
Especially into low Ohm loads.

Max voltage supply of TDA2030 is +/-18 Volt ( = 36 Volt ).
Bridging would be almost like putting 72 Volt across TDA2030
in terms of output currents.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


But you are right - in your case it is perfectly alright to BRIDGE.
It will increase power!


Say we compare with we can get +/- 5 V output into 8 Ohm
without bridging.
Prms = (U*U) / Ohm * 2 = 25/16 = 1.56 Watt

Bridging Two TDA2030 will give 4 x1.56 Watt into 8 Ohm = 6.25 Watt.

We check with formula:
Peak output voltage ~10 Volt (of supply 12 Volt )
Prms = (U*U) / Ohm * 2
P = 10*10 / 8*2 = 100/16
P RMS = 6.25 Watt

And it will not be over the limit ( max 36 Volt ) for the TDA2030 chip.
2 x 12 Volt is only 24 Volt equal supply.
Which is well within what a TDA2030 can take.

============================================


I am sure somebody has got a good TDA2030 bridging circuit
or some similar circuit you can use.
If it is not already in the datasheet here.

There are 2 versions: TDA2030 and TDA2030A.
The 'A' Version has got a bit higher max power.
I don't know what more is different.

TDA2030A - PDF datasheet

TDA2030 - PDF datasheet


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Old 16th January 2007, 01:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
We check with formula:
Peak output voltage ~10 Volt (of supply 12 Volt )
Prms = (U*U) / Ohm * 2
P = 10*10 / 8*2 = 100/16
P RMS = 6.25 Watt
the TDA2030 canīt swing to ground, so you have to reduce peak output voltage to 6-8 Volt
Regards
Juergen
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Old 16th January 2007, 01:50 PM   #10
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by juergenk

the TDA2030 canīt swing to ground, so you have to reduce peak output voltage to 6-8 Volt
Regards
Juergen
Thanks, juergenk
We can adjust my theoretical figures down using 8 Volt peak max.
This value is if we are lucky, I guess.

I would not try to Bridge + Parallel, using 4 chips.
Becuse wouldn't be needed, as 2 chips in Bridge can deliver currents needed
even, I think into a 4 Ohm speaker.
When we deal with low voltage supply, we should go for 4 Ohm
instead of 8 Ohm speakers.
In order to get a bit more power output.
There is A REASON why Car speakers are 4 Ohm.

P = (U*U) / (Ohm*2)
--------------------------------------------------------
U = 8 Volt, Ohm = 8
P = 8*8 / 8*2; P= 4 Watt into 8 Ohm

U = 8 Volt, Ohm = 4
P = 8*8 / 4*2; P= 8 Watt into 4 Ohm speaker.
--------------------------------------------------------


Why not goto Fullrange Loudspeaker forum
and build yourself a 1 driver little fullrange speaker
at 4 Ohm, suitable for 12 Volt systems.


I am sure some of the guys there can recommend
some good 4 Ohm single driver woofer!
Does not have to cost much.
[b]And is not too complicated build single driver speaker. No crossover!

As you see from formula, you get 2 times (twice) the power
by using 4 Ohm speakers.



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