Ok...
I get where to put the circuit break, it has 2 prongs and should sit in the middle of the hot side going to the power switch.
The power switch should sit between the circuit breaker and the power plug. I'll assume that it does not matter which side is which since it creates or breaks the circuit.
The power switch has a third prong, a ground...if I am building this on a bench to start, and eventually moving it into a wooden box how do I ground it?
Once I do get a ground I connect tie the wire from the ground on the power switch and the ground on the power connector to the same ground point, correct?
I will not be able to use the left over wire. The wire on the transformer is pretty short.
Thanks again...sorry for all the simple questions but I already know much more than I did a few days ago.
I just want to double check somethings, don't want to flip the switch and watch $170 go POOF
I get where to put the circuit break, it has 2 prongs and should sit in the middle of the hot side going to the power switch.
The power switch should sit between the circuit breaker and the power plug. I'll assume that it does not matter which side is which since it creates or breaks the circuit.
The power switch has a third prong, a ground...if I am building this on a bench to start, and eventually moving it into a wooden box how do I ground it?
Once I do get a ground I connect tie the wire from the ground on the power switch and the ground on the power connector to the same ground point, correct?
I will not be able to use the left over wire. The wire on the transformer is pretty short.
Thanks again...sorry for all the simple questions but I already know much more than I did a few days ago.
I just want to double check somethings, don't want to flip the switch and watch $170 go POOF
davidlzimmer said:
That may be true but understanding hot vs neutral is a big deal and 2-prong plugs are "polarized" (one prong bigger than the other for a reason). 3-prong plugs are also effectively polarized.
Care must be taken to fuse and switch the hot side and not the neutral side.
That Avel Lindberg tranny has the usual color scheme. This is how I did it assuming you're using a simple SPST or SPDT switch.
AC Power Leads (US Colors)
Hot = Black
Neutral = White
Green = Ground
Hot lead (Black) in to fuse, from fuse to switch, from switch to Blue/Violet on tranny. This is the switched hot side.
Neutral lead (White) to Brown/Grey on tranny. This is the unswitched neutral side.
Ground lead (Green) goes to chassis if you're using a metal chassis. AndrewT would tell you not to f**k around and solder this to the chassis for absolute safety. I tinned the end of the lead with solder and used a simple green grounding clip like you get at the Home Depot.
For additional safety, you may want to cover the fuse and switch solder lugs with electrical tape.
Tranny Leads
Blue and Violet together to switch.
Brown and Grey together to AC neutral
Black and Red separately to AC1 on the rectifier board (2 separate holes labeled AC1)
Orange and Yellow separately to AC2 on the rectifier board (2 separate holes labeled AC2)
Please be very careful with AC power. As a first step, I would make sure that the chassis ground (Green) is the first lead that you connect before venturing onto other leads. I would also check the outlet that you're working with to make sure that there are no problems with it like hot-on-neutral or bad ground. Again the Home Depot or local hardware store sells a nifty little tester that bugs these things out easily.
I did NOT say solder!!!!!
I said best to weld the safety connection to chassis.
Or make it a permanent mechanical fixing that NEVER gets disconnected when there is a risk of plugging into the mains.
The reason for NOT soldering is just in case the solder melts during the failure mode.
Do you never use two pole switches to break both live AND neutral in your countries?
AND USE THAT LIGHT BULB.
I said best to weld the safety connection to chassis.
Or make it a permanent mechanical fixing that NEVER gets disconnected when there is a risk of plugging into the mains.
The reason for NOT soldering is just in case the solder melts during the failure mode.
Do you never use two pole switches to break both live AND neutral in your countries?
AND USE THAT LIGHT BULB.
OK...a few problems here...please read my post above very carefully...
I get where to put the circuit break, it has 2 prongs and should sit in the middle of the hot side going to the power switch.
NO! The fuse (circuit break?) has to be the first thing power goes into. Otherwise even if the fuse goes off, you may still have a "hot" switch or chassis.
The power switch should sit between the circuit breaker and the power plug.
I already described the problem above...the switch should be dead if the fuse (circuit breaker) goes off. The switch goes after the fuse and after the AC power in. Also please don't call this a circuit breaker unless it really is a breaker (an electromagnetic overcurrent relay device).
I'll assume that it does not matter which side is which since it creates or breaks the circuit.
WRONG! It makes a huge difference. "Neutral" (the White lead) is called neutral because back in your house breaker panel, all neutrals are bonded (in contact with ground). You could technically touch a neutral lead even when energized and nothing would happen (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS THOUGH SINCE THERE ARE MANY VARIABLES THAT COULD STILL MAKE THIS DANGEROUS LIKE SWITCHED HOT-ON-NEUTRALS AT THE WALL RECEPTACLE AND OTHER ANOMALIES).
For absolute safety, some recommend a DPST switch to "break" both hot and neutral at the same time but this is not technically necessary.
The power switch has a third prong, a ground...if I am building this on a bench to start, and eventually moving it into a wooden box how do I ground it?
Most likely wrong! You most likely have a DPST switch and THIS IS NOT A GROUND!
Once I do get a ground I connect tie the wire from the ground on the power switch and the ground on the power connector to the same ground point, correct?
PLEASE SEE ABOVE!
I will not be able to use the left over wire. The wire on the transformer is pretty short.
I'm not sure what you mean by this...
I get where to put the circuit break, it has 2 prongs and should sit in the middle of the hot side going to the power switch.
NO! The fuse (circuit break?) has to be the first thing power goes into. Otherwise even if the fuse goes off, you may still have a "hot" switch or chassis.
The power switch should sit between the circuit breaker and the power plug.
I already described the problem above...the switch should be dead if the fuse (circuit breaker) goes off. The switch goes after the fuse and after the AC power in. Also please don't call this a circuit breaker unless it really is a breaker (an electromagnetic overcurrent relay device).
I'll assume that it does not matter which side is which since it creates or breaks the circuit.
WRONG! It makes a huge difference. "Neutral" (the White lead) is called neutral because back in your house breaker panel, all neutrals are bonded (in contact with ground). You could technically touch a neutral lead even when energized and nothing would happen (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS THOUGH SINCE THERE ARE MANY VARIABLES THAT COULD STILL MAKE THIS DANGEROUS LIKE SWITCHED HOT-ON-NEUTRALS AT THE WALL RECEPTACLE AND OTHER ANOMALIES).
For absolute safety, some recommend a DPST switch to "break" both hot and neutral at the same time but this is not technically necessary.
The power switch has a third prong, a ground...if I am building this on a bench to start, and eventually moving it into a wooden box how do I ground it?
Most likely wrong! You most likely have a DPST switch and THIS IS NOT A GROUND!
Once I do get a ground I connect tie the wire from the ground on the power switch and the ground on the power connector to the same ground point, correct?
PLEASE SEE ABOVE!
I will not be able to use the left over wire. The wire on the transformer is pretty short.
I'm not sure what you mean by this...
Andrew,
2 pole switches, I assume you mean without a ground, went away a LONG time ago here in the states. I think its been code for the past 15-20 years or so to have all grounded outlets.
I understand the ground concept but WHERE do I ground it to? If the plug if grounded all the way back to the wall do I use the ground on the plug to ground itself?
Carlos,
Andrew suggested using the left over wire from the transformer to wire up the rest of the system.
Got you on where the circuit breaker goes. I will lay everything out, take a picture and post it before I plug it in. I'll also post detailed pics of the parts I bought.
None of the parts I bought dictate either a hot or neutral side, is the hot always the one on the left when looking at the switch from the back?
The switch I bought had this information associated with it:
Round SPDT Rocker switch with snap-in mount, with 3V red button. 13/16" hole required. 5 amp, 125 VAC.
2 pole switches, I assume you mean without a ground, went away a LONG time ago here in the states. I think its been code for the past 15-20 years or so to have all grounded outlets.
I understand the ground concept but WHERE do I ground it to? If the plug if grounded all the way back to the wall do I use the ground on the plug to ground itself?
Carlos,
Andrew suggested using the left over wire from the transformer to wire up the rest of the system.
Got you on where the circuit breaker goes. I will lay everything out, take a picture and post it before I plug it in. I'll also post detailed pics of the parts I bought.
None of the parts I bought dictate either a hot or neutral side, is the hot always the one on the left when looking at the switch from the back?
The switch I bought had this information associated with it:
Round SPDT Rocker switch with snap-in mount, with 3V red button. 13/16" hole required. 5 amp, 125 VAC.
![img1[1].gif](/community/data/attachments/72/72482-cb8471ac199398ee4d15b0f9302a842c.jpg)
Eric_B_C said:
OK...I'll say it again...your switch DOES NOT HAVE A GROUND PRONG OR POLE
If anything, the metal case and chassis mount metal parts of the rocker or toggle switch act as a ground when mounted on the metal chassis but there is no ground prong in your case. Don't confuse normal household wall switches which do have a green screw for a ground lead. This is done for similar reasons but is not the same thing.
Carlos,
Your mixing up the items. I was saying ALL homes built in the United States for the past 15-20 years, if not more, all have 3 prong connectors and are grounded. Andrew asked if we did not have 2 prong connectors here in the states without ground, which we do not, at least not in our home.
I was not referring to the switch itself but how the home is wired.
I really do appreciate everyone's efforts...I can tell this may be frustrating. My background is in IT and my hobby are that and automotive racing. In IT if you want to figure something out I try it, if it doesn't work, I try something else and pick up information along the way that always helps later on even if my attempt doesn't fix anything. This is a bit different and a different mind set.
That and you've done a good job of instilling some paranoia that when I plug this thing in I might burn down the house
Your mixing up the items. I was saying ALL homes built in the United States for the past 15-20 years, if not more, all have 3 prong connectors and are grounded. Andrew asked if we did not have 2 prong connectors here in the states without ground, which we do not, at least not in our home.
I was not referring to the switch itself but how the home is wired.
I really do appreciate everyone's efforts...I can tell this may be frustrating. My background is in IT and my hobby are that and automotive racing. In IT if you want to figure something out I try it, if it doesn't work, I try something else and pick up information along the way that always helps later on even if my attempt doesn't fix anything. This is a bit different and a different mind set.
That and you've done a good job of instilling some paranoia that when I plug this thing in I might burn down the house
Eric_B_C said:
Yep...one hot lead input and two potential "make" poles or outputs.
SPDT - Single Pole Double Throw...three prongs...most likely what is called an ON-ON switch.
In order to safely use this kinda switch in your application, solder the hot lead from the fuse to one of the end prongs on the switch (not the middle prong). Then solder the Violet/Blue leads from the tranny to the middle prong. This will make sure that the unused end prong is never energized.
Eric_B_C said:
Yeah...I understand...sorry. When talking to Eurodudes about household stuff just remember that they use different colors for their wires, their plug prongs look different and some countries don't even use our more primitive method of returning energy to power plants through ground rods and stuff
Eric is more than smart enough to take care of himself. Hence the reason Eric is asking all the questions before he flips the switch.
Here are some pics. Take two things into account. I read your last post Carlos and now know I should move the blue/violet to the MIDDLE post on the switch, not the outboard post as you will see in the pics.
Now...where does the ground go? I through that fed off the middle post but I must be missing that and I'm out of wires.
I just layed this out and used tie straps so its only representative before I go and do it for good.
I bought all 14 gauge but look at the transformer its only 20 and 18 gauge. Should I switch to something easier to with like 16/18?
So where does the ground wire come into play and what do I ground it to if I am NOT using a metal case?
Here are the pics:
Thanks!
Here are some pics. Take two things into account. I read your last post Carlos and now know I should move the blue/violet to the MIDDLE post on the switch, not the outboard post as you will see in the pics.
Now...where does the ground go? I through that fed off the middle post but I must be missing that and I'm out of wires.
I just layed this out and used tie straps so its only representative before I go and do it for good.
I bought all 14 gauge but look at the transformer its only 20 and 18 gauge. Should I switch to something easier to with like 16/18?
So where does the ground wire come into play and what do I ground it to if I am NOT using a metal case?
Here are the pics:
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks!
Looks real good, EricB. So you do have a breaker...man...big bucks
I think you got the colors right and even with the 3-prong thingie that the power cord comes into. Make sure to verifiy that the White cable is being soldered to the terminal stamped "N" on the plastic case of that receptacle.
Ground? What to do...what to do...
I recently did my setup with the green wire going right to the metal chassis but not interconnected to the amp board's "star ground" point which is normally where your "PG" or common DC grounds come into the amp boards from the recitifier board/s. I still got a funky 1K Ohm resistance from the amp star ground to the chassis which I expected to be at infinite resistance. I'm a newb so...whatever...no clue why there's no infinite isolation between my amp star ground and the chassis...
In your case, I'd go ahead and connect it to the amp star ground point since you have no metal chassis. If you have any metal components though like volume knobs, mounting plates, whatever, you prolly need to interconnect these with separate leads right to the amp star ground.
I guess AndrewT threw in the towel on you
Maybe other jades here will keep you from bodily harm and pipe up to help you, too. After all...I'm not an audio engineer but I play on TV
I think you got the colors right and even with the 3-prong thingie that the power cord comes into. Make sure to verifiy that the White cable is being soldered to the terminal stamped "N" on the plastic case of that receptacle.
Ground? What to do...what to do...
I recently did my setup with the green wire going right to the metal chassis but not interconnected to the amp board's "star ground" point which is normally where your "PG" or common DC grounds come into the amp boards from the recitifier board/s. I still got a funky 1K Ohm resistance from the amp star ground to the chassis which I expected to be at infinite resistance. I'm a newb so...whatever...no clue why there's no infinite isolation between my amp star ground and the chassis...
In your case, I'd go ahead and connect it to the amp star ground point since you have no metal chassis. If you have any metal components though like volume knobs, mounting plates, whatever, you prolly need to interconnect these with separate leads right to the amp star ground.
I guess AndrewT threw in the towel on you
Maybe other jades here will keep you from bodily harm and pipe up to help you, too. After all...I'm not an audio engineer but I play on TV
BTW...without a metal chassis to ground the green cable, I would for sure try to insulate any exposed hot (black) power stuff with electrical tape after you're done soldering.
I got into an interesting argument with AndrewT a few weeks back about electrical safety exactly over all the trouble that this pesky green wire can cause. Witness that most audio gear comes with simple polarized 2-prong plugs...no gorund Why? I mean the green wire is an obvious safety device.
In Europe, they're very hip on using RCDI or RCD (residual current interrupt devices) right on their appliances or even their entire household wiring. We commonly call GFCI or ground fault interrupts. In the US we only bother with this with obvious deadly things like hair dryers and bathroom outlets (by code now for bathrooms and other "wet" locations). However, you would not be going terribly wrong with using such a plug-in on your wall outlet when testing your setup.
I even presented an RCDI or GFCI device as an alternative to the green wire
I got into an interesting argument with AndrewT a few weeks back about electrical safety exactly over all the trouble that this pesky green wire can cause. Witness that most audio gear comes with simple polarized 2-prong plugs...no gorund Why? I mean the green wire is an obvious safety device.
In Europe, they're very hip on using RCDI or RCD (residual current interrupt devices) right on their appliances or even their entire household wiring. We commonly call GFCI or ground fault interrupts. In the US we only bother with this with obvious deadly things like hair dryers and bathroom outlets (by code now for bathrooms and other "wet" locations). However, you would not be going terribly wrong with using such a plug-in on your wall outlet when testing your setup.
I even presented an RCDI or GFCI device as an alternative to the green wire
ground
If all audio equipment used the earth ground it would introduce ground loops all over the place, thats why even alot of grounded three prong amplifiers offer a ground lift so the system ground is seperate from the earth ground, most of the time the earth ground is only connected to the metal case offering a path to earth incase off accidents.
If all audio equipment used the earth ground it would introduce ground loops all over the place, thats why even alot of grounded three prong amplifiers offer a ground lift so the system ground is seperate from the earth ground, most of the time the earth ground is only connected to the metal case offering a path to earth incase off accidents.
Andrew,
Why in the world would you say that? I LAYED things out for visual reference only so there was no confusion, I wasn't going to plug it in. You didn't think I was going to plug it in while the parts were tie strapped together did you? I fully recognize what I am working with, again its why I have not plugged it in and asking the questions. It would be more helpful too if you pointed out what is so dangerous about what I have not yet done nor planned to do until I was informed?
One thing I've learned in my career(I work in the auto industry) in working suppliers from another country, even where English is their first language, you always do pictures, layouts and make sure everyone is on the same page. When you don't do things like that you run into problems.
There are plenty of chassis out there made out of something other than metal. I'd love to find a metal case but I've been everywhere you can think of and no luck.
Plus its not like I'm going to plug this thing in, grab the hot wires while standing in a bucket of water
I probably will not go farther until I get a solid case for it. I have a few things laying around the house but I do not think the side material is thick enough to withstand the pressure things being plugged in and unplugged. I don't want to solder things up until its all in place so I don't have do my work twice.
I went back and bought all properly colored wires too so I can remain consistent.
Carlos,
The 3 prong receptacle is labeled with an 'N' side. The switch though is only labeled 1-2-3.
Lets assume I have a metal case and can ground it. Where would I run all the ground leads to? PG on each, but there are two, + and -?
This will end up in our bedroom once I build a set of speakers for it. I can run an extension cord to our master that has all GFI's.
I feel so unsafe I never ran that ground wire for my satellite dish
Why in the world would you say that? I LAYED things out for visual reference only so there was no confusion, I wasn't going to plug it in. You didn't think I was going to plug it in while the parts were tie strapped together did you? I fully recognize what I am working with, again its why I have not plugged it in and asking the questions. It would be more helpful too if you pointed out what is so dangerous about what I have not yet done nor planned to do until I was informed?
One thing I've learned in my career(I work in the auto industry) in working suppliers from another country, even where English is their first language, you always do pictures, layouts and make sure everyone is on the same page. When you don't do things like that you run into problems.
There are plenty of chassis out there made out of something other than metal. I'd love to find a metal case but I've been everywhere you can think of and no luck.
Plus its not like I'm going to plug this thing in, grab the hot wires while standing in a bucket of water
I probably will not go farther until I get a solid case for it. I have a few things laying around the house but I do not think the side material is thick enough to withstand the pressure things being plugged in and unplugged. I don't want to solder things up until its all in place so I don't have do my work twice.
I went back and bought all properly colored wires too so I can remain consistent.
Carlos,
The 3 prong receptacle is labeled with an 'N' side. The switch though is only labeled 1-2-3.
Lets assume I have a metal case and can ground it. Where would I run all the ground leads to? PG on each, but there are two, + and -?
This will end up in our bedroom once I build a set of speakers for it. I can run an extension cord to our master that has all GFI's.
I feel so unsafe I never ran that ground wire for my satellite dish
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