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Old 24th February 2003, 04:40 PM   #751
2Bak is offline 2Bak  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by fedde

Respect!

Unfortunately, there's a lot you can do wrong in building your amp. (this is also from my own experience ). I made so many changes to my equipment in the last months, and the sound changed very much too. Things as grounding, topology, shielding, wiring, soldering etc. are also very important besides component quality, condition & treatment. I hope to update my Thor-amp (and dac!) page soon about some of my findings and new knowledge acquired from this and other forums!

And also the matching with other components is important (especially speakers !)


Enough for me :-)

Yeah, soundstaging is good. And the amp is quite addictive IMHO !

Fedde

Would this more true for the Gainclone amp then for other DIY amps, say a Pass Zen amp? I guess lots of Pass DIY amps also sound differently, but does the final sound depend more on building quality when we talk about the GC ...? A Pass Zen Amp does have a unique sound which all those DIY Zen amps have, to some extend...or am I wrong?

I can never build an amp like you can or Peter can, cause I am a novice. However I guess I'll be building my amps in higher quality if I am motivated by some statements from DIY'ers and owners who praise a particular circuit. This was what made me build a Pass amp and kept me going. And in the end this motivation made me build a really good sounding amp. This is also what makes me build a GC.
That's why I'm so hungry to hear more statements on GC sound quality in general for this amp, but I know I cannot expect to hear something definate....
But I guess it is a very good sounding amp since you guys use it as your main or secondary amp...

Looking forward to see your webpage updated, Fedde...!
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Old 24th February 2003, 05:24 PM   #752
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Default Re: Moving DC Blocking Cap

Peter,

Id be interested in seeing whether moving the DC blocking capacitor directly to the input would change the sound. It seems to me that a small gain in offset would be worth a try if it does not affect the sonics in discernable ways.

I would try to keep all the components at the input side (4.7 uF cap, pot, and 10 K resistor) as far away as possible from those at the output side, including the 1000 uF bypass capacitors, which carry highly nonlinear currents from the class-B operation. There might not be an entirely satisfactory way to do this while keeping a tight layout, but the idea is to minimize the inductive and capacitive coupling between the output and the input.

I agree with you in leaving out the 220K resistor from the noninverting input. It is too high a resistance to hang at the input node, and it makes the noninverting input more susceptible to undesirable capacitive coupling. The need to keep the impedance low at the input would certainly override the concern for DC offset.

Regards,

James
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Old 24th February 2003, 07:19 PM   #753
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy
Now if only every 50 hours we spent on something could yield such satisfaction in the end.
Dear Eddy
Well, we both know that there are a few other things that yield satisfaction in the end (might i say that one or two of them request less than 5 minutes from us to spend on ).
Anyway, thank you


Quote:
Originally posted by Bobken
...and the total time taken for testing so long, it must have been rather disheartening.
Dear Bobken
There were your suggestions i had in my mind when i was in the middle of the trials and i was quite tired, that helped me not to give up.

Quote:
You have also realised that there is no point in any self-deceit in cases such as these.
In fact, i am quite used to (and aware of the implications of the) the testing methodology and the extraction of any statistically meaningfull result. But there ( in my professional life), there are hard facts to be gathered and analused. The irony is that the main scope of some of these tests that i have to design, implement and analyse, is the influence of the "human factor" (i.e. the variance of the human judgement) on the outcome of a properly designed test. The scientific data show to the direction of (the human, being) a creature capable of achieving very high score, but not always, that is, it is unreliable, or in technical terms, having an output with a very high crest factor. With this in mind, i am quite prepared to face very different opinions from people evaluating the same think. I am also aware of my own vulnerability to "expectations", and other human weaknesses as well.

Quote:
I always listen to vocals too and especially female ones for HF as they can be very revealing if you have some good recordings. Also, male voices cover a surprising proportion of the usual human hearing 'spectrum'
Yes. The human voice! (It has been written that Beethoven was the first composer that didn't have his mind on the human voice as the main "musical instrument" when he was composing non-Lieder music. (he too surrendered though in the 9th). I use human voice on the long term testings. My opinion is that you have to have time to evaluate something with human voice as a stimulus. And i agree with you that female voice (not my wife's please) is good for HF, and male voice for almost full range balance testing. (On the afforementioned long term testings, there were Brigitte Fassbaender's 1990 and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau's 1955 interpretations of Schubert's "Winterreise"(i am lucking Hans Hoffer's one. Can you help me find it? Phillips does not release the record anymore).

Quote:
Personally, I only attend live concerts a few times each year (and live music is the only real yardstick
Three weeks ago Hamburg Symphony orchestra performed here in Athens Mahler's "Des Knaben Wundernhorn"
I didn't attend, because the week's pocket money had been spent for GC's x-former, housing, heatshinks. Where did i stick my yardstick to?

Quote:
You have a very nice country, by the way, and I have had many happy holidays in the islands around your mainland.
Actyally, it is my country that has me. Thanks, anyway. I am always willing to enjoy a beer (or a couple or a triple, or..) with people i have common things to share. Just send me a note.

Having said (written) all these, i realised that Peter Daniel may have been upset for having me filling the space of his thread with so much talking, about non (directly) related to the thread subjects. Peter, i am sorry. I will start another thread in the "everything else" with the tittle "Music and psychoacoustics" where i will host my big mouth, together with my small head. Thanks for the hospitality so far, and congratulations for your active contribution to the spread of Thorsten's inverted GC idea.

Regards
George
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Old 24th February 2003, 07:49 PM   #754
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Quote:
Originally posted by gpapag




Having said (written) all these, i realised that Peter Daniel may have been upset for having me filling the space of his thread with so much talking, about non (directly) related to the thread subjects. Peter, i am sorry. I will start another thread in the "everything else" with the tittle "Music and psychoacoustics" where i will host my big mouth, together with my small head. Thanks for the hospitality so far, and congratulations for your active contribution to the spread of Thorsten's inverted GC idea.

I'm not upset, because this thread belongs to every member reading it. I could always use my mod privileges and move the parts I don't like to a different thread but the thing is, I like them all.

I'm also considering a prize to the person who most accurately guesses the date and time when 200,000 view will occur.
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:02 PM   #755
jam is offline jam  United States
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Thumbs up Prize!

Peter,

As I recall you seem to have a spare Zen board somewhere........

Jam
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:07 PM   #756
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I was thinking about amp similar to the one that started this thread, but if you say that Zen board is good, I can go with that too.
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Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it. - JC
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:22 PM   #757
jam is offline jam  United States
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Peter,

I did not say the Zen board was good it was just an idea.

If you want good this is good......

Jam

P.S. I will disqualify myself from the contest at this point.....
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:26 PM   #758
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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If you can see an attached image, this means i managed to send the photo of the experimental setup for resistors testing. If not, you may imagine it.
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:27 PM   #759
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Quote:
Originally posted by jam
If you want good this is good......

Jam
I'll second that.
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Old 24th February 2003, 08:29 PM   #760
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Good. I am learning something each moment. Now close-up view of the mixture. The two resistors under test are the two soldered to the switch
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