Matttcattt said:
If your wiring is as per your schematic (disregarding the pin numbers), then your wiring is ultimately not correct.
You can't simply swap the + and - pins and make that circuit into a non-inverting version. Not sure exactly off the top of my head what you would ultimately get, but it ain't gonna work right.
If you want a non-inverting version of that circuit, you need to rearrange it like this:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/noninverting.jpg">
</center>
se
Matttcattt said:
Yes. What I meant was that if you were wiring to that circuit, with the + and - inputs switched around as indicated in your original schematic, then it's not going to work.
Whichever you prefer. The easiest would be to simply swap the leads to the + and - inputs on the opamp. That will leave you with the inverted circuit.
If you want a non-inverting circuit, then wire it up as per the schematic I gave.
se
Hi!
Last week my good old friend Electrocompaniet ECI1 who has been with me for almost 10 years went dead.
I hope that it`s a relay thats broken because the amp won`t stop muting on start up, no click. Anyway I haven`t got schematics for it and haven`t got the equipment to start faultfinding. I have very little money for the time beeing, but I`m addicted to music so my choises are:
1 I can send my amp to get it fixed.
2 I can build my self a gainclone for about the same money.
Do you experienced gainclone builders think that a gainclone will be able to drive my Dali Grand Coupe 86db, 6 ohm?
If so is 18 V power supply transformers the way to go?
Have anybody tried the AudioNote tantalum resistors in a gainclone?
I`m sorry if theese questions have been answered before. This treat is so long I`m loosing track of it.
Hope you can help me out, I`m going crazy having to listen to music through my 5 yers old 30$ pc speakers!
Tor M
Last week my good old friend Electrocompaniet ECI1 who has been with me for almost 10 years went dead.
I hope that it`s a relay thats broken because the amp won`t stop muting on start up, no click. Anyway I haven`t got schematics for it and haven`t got the equipment to start faultfinding. I have very little money for the time beeing, but I`m addicted to music so my choises are:1 I can send my amp to get it fixed.
2 I can build my self a gainclone for about the same money.
Do you experienced gainclone builders think that a gainclone will be able to drive my Dali Grand Coupe 86db, 6 ohm?
If so is 18 V power supply transformers the way to go?
Have anybody tried the AudioNote tantalum resistors in a gainclone?
I`m sorry if theese questions have been answered before. This treat is so long I`m loosing track of it.
Hope you can help me out, I`m going crazy having to listen to music through my 5 yers old 30$ pc speakers!
Tor M
Hi Tor M,
The concensus of opinion on the Gainclone driving speakers is that it works better with more efficient speakers although one or two people have had success with less efficient models.
As regards the sound quality, IMHO I would say go for it. I have been very impressed with mine and am now seriously considering using the Gainclones to replace my two highly modified Arcam A60's.
The 24 volt transformers that I used produce very good results but remember that I am using 95db/w speakers! 18 volt transformers are considered ideal by other GC builders.
I haven't tried Audionote tantalums.
I agree with you about the length of the thread and a few of us have made suggestions for splitting it into smaller sections. I would love to see a search facility within threads but I don't know how easy that would be to set up.
The concensus of opinion on the Gainclone driving speakers is that it works better with more efficient speakers although one or two people have had success with less efficient models.
As regards the sound quality, IMHO I would say go for it. I have been very impressed with mine and am now seriously considering using the Gainclones to replace my two highly modified Arcam A60's.
The 24 volt transformers that I used produce very good results but remember that I am using 95db/w speakers! 18 volt transformers are considered ideal by other GC builders.
I haven't tried Audionote tantalums.
I agree with you about the length of the thread and a few of us have made suggestions for splitting it into smaller sections. I would love to see a search facility within threads but I don't know how easy that would be to set up.
Thanks for answering Nuuk..
I really would like to build it. I will get sound out of my speakers even tough it might not be the best mach, og maybe it will work splendid.
Here are my thoughts, it got to be cheap, but not to cheap:
I`ll build a wooden cabinet for it. Shield it with graphite spray. Get a piece of of 0,5-1 cm thick copper, brass or bronze plate for the chips. Space this away from the bottomplate. Oversized powersupply 2X300VA 24V transformers or 2X225VA 18V transformers. MUR 860, BlackGate capasitors, AudioNote or to save some money welwyn rc55 i combination with matched carbon film resistors. Instead of bad speaker terminal I`ll just have 4 pieces of speaker cable with some cable shoes hanging out of it, as speaker connection for a start.
If I can afford it I might try to build this new preamp from Embla Audio in Norway into the cabinet.
http://www.emblaaudio.no/pdf/PREone.pdf
Am I heading in the right direction?
My real concern is the grounding issues. Anybody who can link me to some pages with good information about grounding issues in amps?
I appriciate your help!
Tor M.
I really would like to build it. I will get sound out of my speakers even tough it might not be the best mach, og maybe it will work splendid.
Here are my thoughts, it got to be cheap, but not to cheap:
I`ll build a wooden cabinet for it. Shield it with graphite spray. Get a piece of of 0,5-1 cm thick copper, brass or bronze plate for the chips. Space this away from the bottomplate. Oversized powersupply 2X300VA 24V transformers or 2X225VA 18V transformers. MUR 860, BlackGate capasitors, AudioNote or to save some money welwyn rc55 i combination with matched carbon film resistors. Instead of bad speaker terminal I`ll just have 4 pieces of speaker cable with some cable shoes hanging out of it, as speaker connection for a start.
If I can afford it I might try to build this new preamp from Embla Audio in Norway into the cabinet.
http://www.emblaaudio.no/pdf/PREone.pdf
Am I heading in the right direction?
My real concern is the grounding issues. Anybody who can link me to some pages with good information about grounding issues in amps?
I appriciate your help!
Tor M.
Hi!
Try this one for earthing
R. Elliot's article about earthing
And this whole thread for general GC grounding ...
Start grounding is the way to go, and it is easier if you use (like in your plans) a true mono design with two supplies...
One question: Why use a pre-amp? Do you plan to use a turntable? Otherwise I would just use it without it...
Bye,
Arndt
Tor M said:
My real concern is the grounding issues. Anybody who can link me to some pages with good information about grounding issues in amps?
I appriciate your help!
Tor M.
Try this one for earthing
R. Elliot's article about earthing
And this whole thread for general GC grounding
...Start grounding is the way to go, and it is easier if you use (like in your plans) a true mono design with two supplies...
One question: Why use a pre-amp? Do you plan to use a turntable? Otherwise I would just use it without it...
Bye,
Arndt
Hi!
The plan with the preamp was to make sure that the input voltage is high enough and stable enough for the amp to drive my 86db, 6 ohm speakers. And it`s remote controlled.
(Lazy, old me!) But I probably cant afford it anyway. My cdplayer is 2V out, and that shold be enough. I`ll probably go for 50K pot or stepped attenuator.
Thanks for the link on grounding.
Tor M
The plan with the preamp was to make sure that the input voltage is high enough and stable enough for the amp to drive my 86db, 6 ohm speakers. And it`s remote controlled.
(Lazy, old me!) But I probably cant afford it anyway. My cdplayer is 2V out, and that shold be enough. I`ll probably go for 50K pot or stepped attenuator.Thanks for the link on grounding.
Tor M
Tor M, before you go to the trouble of building a preamp, try a 10K pot, I think that you will be plesently surprised.
Grounding is not really a problem, at least I didn't find it so.
Have a look at my article and pictures HERE
which should give you all the help you need although you can ask here if you need more.
You re quite right in building cheap by excluding the extras such as speaker terminals which can be added later when you realise what a good amp you have built.
Grounding is not really a problem, at least I didn't find it so.
Have a look at my article and pictures HERE
which should give you all the help you need although you can ask here if you need more.
You re quite right in building cheap by excluding the extras such as speaker terminals which can be added later when you realise what a good amp you have built.
Tor M said:
Hi Tor M,
I'm using my GainClones with my ATC SCM20SL's - they are 83-84dB, and although specified as 8 ohm speakers, they drop to 4 ohms at some frequencies.
As well as being relatively hard to drive, these speakers are *extremely* revealing. They ruthlessly show up any faults in the source or the amplifier, and I've found that they readily let you hear the effects of tweaking. I've tried lots of commercial amps in the past with these speakers, and none of them sounded better than my Musical Fidelity A1... This is why I'm so impressed with the GainClones, which is a leap forward in quality
It would be interesting to find out what speakers other people are using with their GainClones? I guess that my ATC's might be considered slightly "high-end" - is anyone else using similar speakers?
Tor M said:
Check my WWW - there's lots of info there. Basically, I started off using a single 18V TX for both channels, which sounded quite good, but you could drive it into clipping far too easily. I switched to a pair of 160VA 25V transformers, which comfortably gives 50W per channel - plenty for my small lounge. There was a big improvement in dynamics and imaging, with no sign of the loss of bass that some people have experienced with 25V transformers...
Hope this helps,
Mark
I had an interesting experience with regard to polarity on my gc last night that I think some may find useful in getting the best sound out of their clones.
I got the idea out of the latest issue of Stereophile mag reviewer Robert Deutsch on the Audiopax 88 amp.He claimed that he got a "very significant improvement" in sound when instead of inverting polarity opn the speaker terminals on the output of the inverting Audiopax he used the polarity switch on his (p3a) DAC and left the speakers as normal.
So.... I said let me try this on the inverting clone although I have never thought much about polarity affecting sonics.
Well I was surprised at the difference. I much preferred inverting polarity before the gclone and keeping the speaker terminals as for a normal non-inv amp. There was a smoothness and depth to the sound that's hard to describe and a fuller impression in the bass.These are subtle diiferences that change the impression of the way the music is being conveyed and how it flows.What I was also surprised at was that if the speakers were in wrong polarity to the system polarity (whether inverted at dac or non inverted at dac) the music sounded edgy and disjointed with some weakness in the bass.
So although I can't guarantee this with your system perhaps it is worth investigating.It also seems that checking absolute polarity is also very important since some DIYers may not realise
the importance of reversing the speaker leads on the inverting
gainclone.
I got the idea out of the latest issue of Stereophile mag reviewer Robert Deutsch on the Audiopax 88 amp.He claimed that he got a "very significant improvement" in sound when instead of inverting polarity opn the speaker terminals on the output of the inverting Audiopax he used the polarity switch on his (p3a) DAC and left the speakers as normal.
So.... I said let me try this on the inverting clone although I have never thought much about polarity affecting sonics.
Well I was surprised at the difference. I much preferred inverting polarity before the gclone and keeping the speaker terminals as for a normal non-inv amp. There was a smoothness and depth to the sound that's hard to describe and a fuller impression in the bass.These are subtle diiferences that change the impression of the way the music is being conveyed and how it flows.What I was also surprised at was that if the speakers were in wrong polarity to the system polarity (whether inverted at dac or non inverted at dac) the music sounded edgy and disjointed with some weakness in the bass.
So although I can't guarantee this with your system perhaps it is worth investigating.It also seems that checking absolute polarity is also very important since some DIYers may not realise
the importance of reversing the speaker leads on the inverting
gainclone.
Hi!
Thanks for all the answers.
I found this article on stargrounding that was realy interesting reading.
http://www.aikenamps.com/StarGround.html
I think I`ll start collecting parts from RS-components, but I`ll have to wait until May to start building anyway.
Right now I`m working my but off with the closing project of engineer education. (Getting in to this amp stuff was a bad idea, takes me away from what I got to do! But much more fun thoug )
Regarding absolute phase thath is a hard issue because you never know if the records are recorded with the right polarity. I have experienced it many times that swiching absolute phase in my system have made recordings I thougt were bad sound a lot better. I realy should get me a phaseswich to connent to the speaker cable.
Tor M.
Thanks for all the answers.
I found this article on stargrounding that was realy interesting reading.
http://www.aikenamps.com/StarGround.html
I think I`ll start collecting parts from RS-components, but I`ll have to wait until May to start building anyway.
Right now I`m working my but off with the closing project of engineer education. (Getting in to this amp stuff was a bad idea, takes me away from what I got to do! But much more fun thoug
)Regarding absolute phase thath is a hard issue because you never know if the records are recorded with the right polarity. I have experienced it many times that swiching absolute phase in my system have made recordings I thougt were bad sound a lot better. I realy should get me a phaseswich to connent to the speaker cable.
Tor M.
It's interesting as I was experimenting with speakers polarity as well yesterday. I was always reversing cables to compensate for reversed polarity of the amp, but yesterday tried to connect speaker cables normal way (plus to amps outout) and indeed the sound was indeed smoother with better defined vocals and seemingly more coherence. With inverted polarity at speakers it seemed a bit edgy or thin by comparison. I didn't have the option to switch phase before the amp. It almost seems like the amp don't invert phase and speakers should be connected regular way
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