Hi,
Few days ago i finished my gc. It is just very good 300va/25v transformer and premium kit from Peter Daniel without any changes (no zobel, no input caps). It is just experimental design, so i can play with some components and later put it in one nice case:
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/praganj/?action=view¤t=gc_prototype1.jpg
On the photo you can see one zobel netwoerk, but without zobel the sound is more direct, so now the amp is without zobel.
I was taking care when i was building it. First all components and pcbs where cleaned very carefully, than i soldered all compnents one by one using WBT solder with 5% silver. All cables are from Kimber and input cables are teflon isolated Chord. All inputs and outputs are very good quality.
Actuall the amp sounds very good, but ...
The sound is not involving
and lifeless 
and the bass is not very good.
I compared it to Musical Fidelity A1, Naim Nait 2, Naim Nac72/140. All those amps have less resolution and are not so exact as gc, but they have just punch, prat and strong living involving sound and basslines are much better.
Is there any help possible, or gc ist juts like this ? Do i have to wait longer, so the amp will really run in ?
Any ideas ?
Few days ago i finished my gc. It is just very good 300va/25v transformer and premium kit from Peter Daniel without any changes (no zobel, no input caps). It is just experimental design, so i can play with some components and later put it in one nice case:
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/praganj/?action=view¤t=gc_prototype1.jpg
On the photo you can see one zobel netwoerk, but without zobel the sound is more direct, so now the amp is without zobel.
I was taking care when i was building it. First all components and pcbs where cleaned very carefully, than i soldered all compnents one by one using WBT solder with 5% silver. All cables are from Kimber and input cables are teflon isolated Chord. All inputs and outputs are very good quality.
Actuall the amp sounds very good, but ...
The sound is not involving
and lifeless and the bass is not very good.I compared it to Musical Fidelity A1, Naim Nait 2, Naim Nac72/140. All those amps have less resolution and are not so exact as gc, but they have just punch, prat and strong living involving sound and basslines are much better.
Is there any help possible, or gc ist juts like
this ? Do i have to wait longer, so the amp will really run in ?Any ideas ?
Hi,
I had the same issue, using a Lm based chipamp with a passive preamp. ie just a pot. Really in my and a lot of otehr people opinion these amps sound better when fed through either a buffer or a preamp. There are many people on this site bteer equiped to tell you why however all i can say is to get the best from mine I first tried a buffer and then later a AD815 based preamp. Both helped a lot though i prefer the later.
Here is Nuuks guide to building a buffer:-
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclonepre.html
And here is the thread for the preamp i built:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40783
With soem kind of active stage these amps really fly, they gain the punch that they are lacking without IMHO.
Phil
I had the same issue, using a Lm based chipamp with a passive preamp. ie just a pot. Really in my and a lot of otehr people opinion these amps sound better when fed through either a buffer or a preamp. There are many people on this site bteer equiped to tell you why however all i can say is to get the best from mine I first tried a buffer and then later a AD815 based preamp. Both helped a lot though i prefer the later.
Here is Nuuks guide to building a buffer:-
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclonepre.html
And here is the thread for the preamp i built:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40783
With soem kind of active stage these amps really fly, they gain the punch that they are lacking without IMHO.
Phil
sinski said:Is there any help possible, or gc ist juts like
Any ideas ?
Let a friend do the connecting and you must tell which amp you are listening to. Make it 5-10 tries and then see if you can pick the Gainclone. It's a big difference if you can see and know what you are listening to.I used to use LM3886's and I found they give a very straight performance. They are fairly accurate but lacking flavour IMO. I guess you could make them sound warmer, or anything else you wanted by using a 'colourful' pre stage. I guess I could say that the 3886's are 'open to suggestion' - and suggest you should!
Hi Sinski. I am building the very same kit! I'm interested in the replies you get, because I was worried what I understand may be more defined bass may well also mean quieter bass.
I'm loathe to start work on a second DIY project straight after my first so I guess I'll have to wait and see. In the meantime can you post any more pics? They are really useful for a fellow builder who is very new to Gaincloning.
Would a snubberised power supply help? Perhaps someone else with more knowledge could advise.
In an effort to be helpful, I tried to do a search for relevant threads (Anyone got any good tips on how to search on here? - I certainly haven't found the knack yet).
Anyway I found this post and there are some potentially useful replies.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=144345#post144345
I'm loathe to start work on a second DIY project straight after my first so I guess I'll have to wait and see. In the meantime can you post any more pics? They are really useful for a fellow builder who is very new to Gaincloning.
Would a snubberised power supply help? Perhaps someone else with more knowledge could advise.
In an effort to be helpful, I tried to do a search for relevant threads (Anyone got any good tips on how to search on here? - I certainly haven't found the knack yet).
Anyway I found this post and there are some potentially useful replies.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=144345#post144345
I was testing gc with different sources. I have two sources -DPA Drive+DAC DX32+passive preamp with 50k blue alps and the variable output of my Benchmark DAC1.
Yesterday o took my gc to my friend and we have tested it with Naim cd3, sony XA30es and DAC1.
The effect was always very similar and the worst was to compare to my old Nait 2 with all tweaks from www.acoustica.org.uk
Nait 2 is just dancing and sparkling with music and gc is very exact, but absolutely lazy and sleepy. Maybe i will try snubber ps.
Yesterday o took my gc to my friend and we have tested it with Naim cd3, sony XA30es and DAC1.
The effect was always very similar and the worst was to compare to my old Nait 2 with all tweaks from www.acoustica.org.uk
Nait 2 is just dancing and sparkling with music and gc is very exact, but absolutely lazy and sleepy. Maybe i will try snubber ps.
sinski said:
there is some of your problem
the benchmark DAC1 is a fine DAC but lifeless to start off with. it is very good for recording equipment but does not have the musicallity. then the second problem is the NE5532 .... it isn't very good , you can replace it with a better AD or BB substitute.
have a look at Russ Whites's freebird. it will give it exactly what you are looking for
Sound
I had this same problem with my first one. I then put a better power supply into the next LM3875 with a couple of bridge rectifiers and a couple of filter caps. Much better sound, way more dynamic. I'm no electronics guru, but the power supply seems to be vital in getting a good sound from these chips IMHO. I am building my next one using LM4780, and it will have 40,000uf of filter caps. 40 x 1000uf and 4x bridge rectifiers, so it will interesting to see how this one differs from my previous ones.
I had this same problem with my first one. I then put a better power supply into the next LM3875 with a couple of bridge rectifiers and a couple of filter caps. Much better sound, way more dynamic. I'm no electronics guru, but the power supply seems to be vital in getting a good sound from these chips IMHO. I am building my next one using LM4780, and it will have 40,000uf of filter caps. 40 x 1000uf and 4x bridge rectifiers, so it will interesting to see how this one differs from my previous ones.
Enzedone: What do you mean by "better power supply". I have one transformer (ripped out of an od marantz) which had various settings and which my mate rigged up for me to have two 24v secondaries.
I'm biulding a premium kit from Audiosector. It came with the bits for two rectifier bridges with 8 diodes each. I was only going to use one rectifier bridge. I thought you only used two if you were powering each channel independently. Is this right?
Hi Sinski
You don't seem to mention your speakers and they may be the main reason for your negative comments. Ime GC type amps are extremely fussy about what they drive, much more than most discrete amps. The GC can't drive well neither my Sonus Fabers nor my ProAcs. No amount of filter capacitance, neither an active pre can change this. If i didn't know how well the chips play into easy, crossoverless speakers i would consider them a complete waste of time.
If I remember rightly, the 3886 sounds different with different amounts of gain. I remember forming the opinion that the sound may have had to do with the large amount of feedback in one way or another.
Based on this and on what analog_sa said, maybe you could compensate your speaker load to make them easier to drive.
Based on this and on what analog_sa said, maybe you could compensate your speaker load to make them easier to drive.
I concur wiht that statement. I played my LM3875 (BrianGT) kit into a CSS FR125....and they did not drive them very well..(sorta same as my SE 300b AMP)..substituted a P3A for the GC and voila..that amp kicked BUTT and took names. I don't think it (GC) will drive stuff as well as a NAIM. Like Analog_sa says...combine them with the right speakers and you'll have a taste of high end for practically peanuts.
Yup..they sound very nice with my Bastani Prometheus, much better than say a Pioneer A400 except in the speed/transients department. (The Pioneer A400 had quite a reputation as a giant killer a decade or so ago)
But lets face it...even if you get a speaker that combines well with the GC ...it still may not be your cup of tea.
My speakers are Spendor 2/3.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/equipment/0601/spendorsp23e.htm
They never go under 8 Ohm, are actually easy to drive, have 88dB. I was using them with 2x8W tube amp and my Nait 2 has only 2x20W but sounds like 2x100 ...
If Naim 2 and Musical Fidelity A1 can drive them easily, than gc can also do that. I can play with gc+spendors very loud without any distortion, but the rhytm and prat is completely absent. Maybe i want to much.
Anybody who heard Naim Nait 2 know how this small amp can rock.
Today i have build the snubber ps from chipamp.com .
It seams that the sound is fuller and has more body, rhytm is little better, but some kind of the openess and sound transparence dissappeared.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/equipment/0601/spendorsp23e.htm
They never go under 8 Ohm, are actually easy to drive, have 88dB. I was using them with 2x8W tube amp and my Nait 2 has only 2x20W but sounds like 2x100 ...
If Naim 2 and Musical Fidelity A1 can drive them easily, than gc can also do that. I can play with gc+spendors very loud without any distortion, but the rhytm and prat is completely absent. Maybe i want to much.
Anybody who heard Naim Nait 2 know how this small amp can rock.
Today i have build the snubber ps from chipamp.com .
It seams that the sound is fuller and has more body, rhytm is little better, but some kind of the openess and sound transparence dissappeared.
sinski said:
It shurely disappears and that's why I don't recommend snubbers and large caps.
I would suggest you build a proper chassis and then evaluate the amp again.
I was just listening today to the new GC monoblocks (chassis built in a similar way as AMP-1) based on a Premium kit (no parts substitution) with ProAc speakers, and the they were very much invloving with great bass.
I have a copy of Hi Fi Choice upcoming review of AMP-1, if anyone want's a copy, please e-mail me (6 Meg file).
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