Gaincard vs. Patek listening comparison on 6moons.com

KT · 21st September 2005, 02:01 AM

Here's the latest on the Gaincard/ Patek comparison:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/4...aincard_2.html

Best,
KT

lgreen · 21st September 2005, 02:19 AM

Pathetic. After all these years and after all these "clones" no one has yet shown a definitive picture of the public domain insides of the original gaincard. All we have are pics of a sloppy board continuously disclaimed by the manufacturer.

The patek of course looks very nice inside and can be seen to have very expensive parts.

Not surprised of the outcome. Every audio shootout I've seen has ended in a tie. Pathetic.

Vikash · 21st September 2005, 11:31 AM

Well the outcome was never going to be a suprise. To pick a definitive result would have been lies. It's still an interesting review due to the pic of my amp

- but ultimately to review is only to surmise.

peranders · 21st September 2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lgreen
[B]Pathetic. After all these years and after all these "clones" no one has yet shown a definitive picture of the public domain insides of the original gaincard. [B]

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/4.../gaincard.html

I think the picture at the bottom of the page (see my link) seems to be rather trustworthy.

peranders · 21st September 2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

In the wake of publishing page 1 as a preview, many e-mails arrived asking for close-up shots of the Gaincard boards. Because I couldn't figure out how to open the device,

It seems (from the pictures) that the brass rods are hidden in glue, epoxy. Nasty if you want to open the box. Check the mysterious holes at the bottom and left/right! Pretty easy to see, at least I'll think so.

PauSim · 21st September 2005, 01:01 PM

I´m almost sure the old pictures that were around are from a real Gaincard. The rods, wiring and attenuators are the same. Just a small thing one makes me doubt about it.

In this picture

the boards are square shaped.

In this one, taken before the revision

the boards look rectangular, just like those in the newer pictures.

Perhaps something went wrong and they were rebuilt by the owner?

Vikash · 21st September 2005, 01:21 PM

That's a keen eye

I'm sure he's laughing at us. Quite impressive that he's kept anyone from getting into one to take independent pics. Good on him.

KT · 21st September 2005, 01:32 PM

With all due respect to Yoshi, all the similarities between the official and unofficial photos suggest to me that both are photos of real Gaincards.

I think that photos in question are of an earlier Gaincard. After the negative reaction to the workmanship, I think they went in and revised the insides of the amp. It's not unheard of at all for manufacturers to make changes or adjustments to a product without announcing anything. I think that's what happened here.

Best,
KT

wes-ninja250 · 21st September 2005, 03:10 PM

Anybody care to comment on the 47-labs assembly choices? I'm at the step right now where I'm going from "bunch of circuit boards" to "amplifier" in my own dual monoblock GC.

I looks as though the input signal wires are twisted around the power ground, and that the power wires are twisted together as well. Is there a reason for that? I was planning on using shielded twisted pair (e.g. microphone cord, music rack cable, etc) for my inputs, and twisting the power wires together (because I've seen that done, not because I fully understand exactly what's going on in terms of wire twisting and EMI). Does the number of twists and spacing matter at these frequencies? The 47-labs stuff looks awfully sloppy.

Hey -- it also looks like a single supply circuit. WTF?

Why kind of pots are those? Step attenuators? Why are there big resistors soldered right to them?

Why did they rip all the labels off the capacitors? Why is there no heat sink? Is that little bitty case enough to dissipate ~60W of heat?

How can they get away with running the input leads in parallel and close proximity with the output leads? Are they not worried about oscillation?

Where is the "star ground"?

Thanks,
Wes

Vikash · 21st September 2005, 03:31 PM

Hi Wes,

You should be able to find some of those answers on the forum already

A stepped attenuator is made up of a number of carefully chosen resistors: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/....html#preampin

There is a supposed benefit in performace in removing the cap sleeves: What's with removing the sleeve off caps?

The heatsink is probably the chassis. The case looks thick enough with enough surface area to be an adequate heatsink.

21st September 2005, 02:01 AM	#1
KT diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA	Gaincard vs. Patek listening comparison on 6moons.com Here's the latest on the Gaincard/ Patek comparison: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/4...aincard_2.html Best, KT

21st September 2005, 11:31 AM	#3
Vikash diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK	Well the outcome was never going to be a suprise. To pick a definitive result would have been lies. It's still an interesting review due to the pic of my amp - but ultimately to review is only to surmise. __________________ "The human mind is so constituted that it colours with its own previous conceptions any new notion that presents itself for acceptance." - J. Wilhelm. (But I still think mine sounds better than yours.)

21st September 2005, 01:21 PM	#7
Vikash diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK	That's a keen eye I'm sure he's laughing at us. Quite impressive that he's kept anyone from getting into one to take independent pics. Good on him. __________________ "The human mind is so constituted that it colours with its own previous conceptions any new notion that presents itself for acceptance." - J. Wilhelm. (But I still think mine sounds better than yours.)

21st September 2005, 03:10 PM	#9
wes-ninja250 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kingston, ON	Anybody care to comment on the 47-labs assembly choices? I'm at the step right now where I'm going from "bunch of circuit boards" to "amplifier" in my own dual monoblock GC. I looks as though the input signal wires are twisted around the power ground, and that the power wires are twisted together as well. Is there a reason for that? I was planning on using shielded twisted pair (e.g. microphone cord, music rack cable, etc) for my inputs, and twisting the power wires together (because I've seen that done, not because I fully understand exactly what's going on in terms of wire twisting and EMI). Does the number of twists and spacing matter at these frequencies? The 47-labs stuff looks awfully sloppy. Hey -- it also looks like a single supply circuit. WTF? Why kind of pots are those? Step attenuators? Why are there big resistors soldered right to them? Why did they rip all the labels off the capacitors? Why is there no heat sink? Is that little bitty case enough to dissipate ~60W of heat? How can they get away with running the input leads in parallel and close proximity with the output leads? Are they not worried about oscillation? Where is the "star ground"? Thanks, Wes __________________ Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

21st September 2005, 03:31 PM	#10
Vikash diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK	Hi Wes, You should be able to find some of those answers on the forum already A stepped attenuator is made up of a number of carefully chosen resistors: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/....html#preampin There is a supposed benefit in performace in removing the cap sleeves: What's with removing the sleeve off caps? The heatsink is probably the chassis. The case looks thick enough with enough surface area to be an adequate heatsink. __________________ "The human mind is so constituted that it colours with its own previous conceptions any new notion that presents itself for acceptance." - J. Wilhelm. (But I still think mine sounds better than yours.)


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21st September 2005, 02:19 AM	#2
lgreen diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: San Diego, USA	Pathetic. After all these years and after all these "clones" no one has yet shown a definitive picture of the public domain insides of the original gaincard. All we have are pics of a sloppy board continuously disclaimed by the manufacturer. The patek of course looks very nice inside and can be seen to have very expensive parts. Not surprised of the outcome. Every audio shootout I've seen has ended in a tie. Pathetic.

21st September 2005, 01:32 PM	#8
KT diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA	With all due respect to Yoshi, all the similarities between the official and unofficial photos suggest to me that both are photos of real Gaincards. I think that photos in question are of an earlier Gaincard. After the negative reaction to the workmanship, I think they went in and revised the insides of the amp. It's not unheard of at all for manufacturers to make changes or adjustments to a product without announcing anything. I think that's what happened here. Best, KT

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