Russ White said:
No, I didn't say it works with that class D amp, because I didn't try it.
I had reports of good results on class D amps, but I don't take that as granted because I didn't try it myself.
What I answered to a member that asked, on that thread on the class D forum, was: try it.
Even saying this already generates discussions, go figure...
Carlos, firstly, I just want you to know I think we agree far more than we disagree. My arguments are simply based on the fact that while I have a lot to learn, many experienced and very respected engineers do not use snubbers in audio PSUs. I just figured they must be doing it for some reason, more than just oversight.
I really do appreciate the debate so long as it remains friendly.
Cheers!
Russ
I really do appreciate the debate so long as it remains friendly.
Cheers!
Russ
Thread cleaned up. Keep it on point.
Hi all,
Peranders,
I have seen that you have used even you PSU the snubber net.
Usually a planner uses one techniques when knows it well...
You don't have evaluate the net analize verifications?
Do you have some technical data (result) ?
Other dilemma: You has measured ( with a fft ) the noise spectra by your "fast" rectifier diodes?
It have compared to that produced by normal "slow" diodes or bridge ?
I don't do you this questions for provocation, but because I hope that at least you has of the technical matters...
Ciao
Mauro
Peranders,
I have seen that you have used even you PSU the snubber net.
Usually a planner uses one techniques when knows it well...
You don't have evaluate the net analize verifications?
Do you have some technical data (result) ?
Other dilemma: You has measured ( with a fft ) the noise spectra by your "fast" rectifier diodes?
It have compared to that produced by normal "slow" diodes or bridge ?
I don't do you this questions for provocation, but because I hope that at least you has of the technical matters...
Ciao
Mauro
mauropenasa said:
Mauro, athough the question is not for me, I would like to make a note.
Since you came in to diyaudio you started insulting me saying you are the one who knows it all, that the snubber thing is BS, that nobody can make a decent PCB layout, that the snubber only works on bad designs, etc...
Let me remind you what I said then: you don't know me.
And I POST THE INFORMATION I WANT.
Actually, it was one of the first things you did: attack me.
The snubber, although with certain values can generate a second peak, it in fact LOWERS THE PSU IMPEDANCE.
This fact alone was NOT believed by most, including some 'experts' like you.
Or your main objective is lowering the PSU impedance, or it is attenuating that peak created by the bypass caps. You can't have both, at least not with one snubber.
If you worry so much about those peaks, you better not even bypass AT ALL.
And why worry so much about the snubber, does it bother you?
Russ White said:
You should know me better, Russ, i don't play that game.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=642031#post642031
Notice that Mauro posted this on MY thread.
And he doesn't even know if I tried this with a PSU on-board with the chip, but he takes his assumptions based on what he believes or understands.
I have made chip-amps from all kinds, including with everything on-board.
And the snubber was tested on other amps.
Including one (single-board) chipamp design that I already talked about.
Oh, and btw related to that post: I always used a cap between the voltage rails with op-amps and I've been recommending and talking about this since I registered on diyaudio. Just to make it clear.
Carlos, I fail to see any attack there. I think you missunderstand his purpose in posting. Not to attack, but to debate.
What game are you talking about anyway? It is not a game to accuse people. If you accuse then the burdon of proof is on you. You chould at least show some solid evidence. So don't just go around throwing accusations unless you expect to back them up. That is just common curtousy.
You tend to throw around baseless accusations and asertions with no basis in fact.
What game are you talking about anyway? It is not a game to accuse people. If you accuse then the burdon of proof is on you. You chould at least show some solid evidence. So don't just go around throwing accusations unless you expect to back them up. That is just common curtousy.
You tend to throw around baseless accusations and asertions with no basis in fact.
Carlos, I have said much times that is not you my problem.
I wish I were there too speak of the performances of this nets in audio band , If some has data....
Ciao
Mauro
Ps: The electronics is not a hypothesis. or you have studied it or not.
I consider expert anyone if he behaves from expert...
I wish I were there too speak of the performances of this nets in audio band , If some has data....
Ciao
Mauro
Ps: The electronics is not a hypothesis. or you have studied it or not.
I consider expert anyone if he behaves from expert...
Russ White said:
That's not an attack?
Then what is it?
Yeah, it's not a personal attack, it's more in these lines 'you know nothing, you do that wrong. I KNOW how to do it'.
Very nice.
By a game I mean I don't invent posts, I talked about a fact.
Btw Russ, those who really bother me more with technical evidence (which I think was already shown long ago, search and do your work) are exactly those who have commercial interests.
Coincidence?
Maybe to the cynnical Carlos.
Snubbers are not new to us. If we wanted them, we have more then enough data to use them at will, without any suggestion from you. We also have the audio experience to know what really works.
It is important to designers to design things based on facts. I do not oppose ANY idea, including snubbing arrangments. Mine is mearly a fact finding mission. Not a crusade against you. In my mind you are just another bystander, not even anything close to a founder of the idea of snubbing.
Why do you inject yourself so personally into the discussion. My objective is to learn here. Nothing more. For you to suggest otherwise is petty.
So lets see the facts.
Also you should note. No thread belongs to any one of us. It is collectively "OUR" forum. As long as posts are on topic, they should be welcomed. Mauro's post in the snubber thread appears very well intentioned.
Snubbers are not new to us. If we wanted them, we have more then enough data to use them at will, without any suggestion from you. We also have the audio experience to know what really works.
It is important to designers to design things based on facts. I do not oppose ANY idea, including snubbing arrangments. Mine is mearly a fact finding mission. Not a crusade against you. In my mind you are just another bystander, not even anything close to a founder of the idea of snubbing.
Why do you inject yourself so personally into the discussion. My objective is to learn here. Nothing more. For you to suggest otherwise is petty.
So lets see the facts.
Also you should note. No thread belongs to any one of us. It is collectively "OUR" forum. As long as posts are on topic, they should be welcomed. Mauro's post in the snubber thread appears very well intentioned.
I am but a humble beginner here, but going by all the reports I read on people that actualy built GCs most were pleased when they added the snubber, in any form...
And based on the few components in the circuit I can very well imagine that noisy power will get to the speaker... the ground rail is allready conected... And the voltage gain added to the input signal comes from the dirty powersource....
Carlos I hope to see you continue adding to the discussion... I know its hard when you believe in something to not take it personal when someone attacks/questions that thing (almost like a religion)..
And based on the few components in the circuit I can very well imagine that noisy power will get to the speaker... the ground rail is allready conected... And the voltage gain added to the input signal comes from the dirty powersource....
Carlos I hope to see you continue adding to the discussion... I know its hard when you believe in something to not take it personal when someone attacks/questions that thing (almost like a religion)..
Russ White said:
Snubbers across diodes, which is not exactly the same thing and don't serve the same purpose.
Obviously you already knew it all, and you know where to find all the data.
Russ White said:
That's what I do.
You didn't follow my thread about the snubberized regulated PSU, did you?
May I get you a pair of glasses?
I thought it was obvious.
But I have the right to remain silent if I want.
You can investigate by your own.
Of course, this is all very well known, so you obviously have all the data.
Russ White said:Not a crusade against you. In my mind you are just another bystander, not even anything close to a founder of the idea of snubbing.
It seems like a crusade, alright.
And this observation proves it again.
After explaining the same to you a couple of days ago.
Again:
I never claimed to have invented this, and you can see my first post on my first thread about the snubbers.
This observation is as silly as Mauro saying this is some kind of a 'legend'.
Russ White said:
You show me.
Russ White said:
Of course.
But Mauro did something I never did, I did not take the initiative to go to his thread and point out what i think it's wrong with his design. Not even talking about snubbers.
I have no interest in that design, anyway, so I won't say anything. I'm very tired of all this.
I have my oppinion, and I keep it to myself.
That's decent.
What fault do i have that others keep talking about the snubbers?
Russ White said:
That post is the first, but obviously you didn't follow the reading a little more.
You will conclude that I really have LOTS of patience...
I believe that my presence in the Thread lifts too the level of personal clash.
I will avoid doing other interventions.
I will look for a forum where there are only technical.
On the other hand in this monthes have not found never a lot of matters deserving of is controversial ( and experienced capable of do it ).
My objective is to complete the informations on My_ref, and this thing is done...
Ciao
Mauro
I will avoid doing other interventions.
I will look for a forum where there are only technical.
On the other hand in this monthes have not found never a lot of matters deserving of is controversial ( and experienced capable of do it ).
My objective is to complete the informations on My_ref, and this thing is done...
Ciao
Mauro
Carlos,
First aknowlegemnts:
1) I aknowlege you are more experienced then I, and you could tech me a lot. I am willing to be taught, and yes I have read the entire snubber thread(both regulated and not). It is good work you do. I respect you, and I think you and I could be great friends if we could just get past this.
2) I also have to listen to others beside you who opinions are just as vaild, and facts just as strong.
3) I have not formed any final opinions. I do not know enough to do so yet. I continue to be educated.
The first reference I have to snubbers circuits (certainly not just diode snubbers) is in "The Art of Electronics". Which I have now read from cover to cover.
I have also read this piece:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?baseLiteratureNumber=slup100&fileType=pdf
And the piece that Ed provided.
All of the sources have firmly convinced me snubbers are invaluable, but not for everything, at least based on the evidence I have so far.
So those sources are my data. And I am simply looking for more practical experimentation and demonstration of our theories and practices.
Cheers!
Russ
First aknowlegemnts:
1) I aknowlege you are more experienced then I, and you could tech me a lot. I am willing to be taught, and yes I have read the entire snubber thread(both regulated and not).
It is good work you do. I respect you, and I think you and I could be great friends if we could just get past this.2) I also have to listen to others beside you who opinions are just as vaild, and facts just as strong.
3) I have not formed any final opinions. I do not know enough to do so yet. I continue to be educated.
The first reference I have to snubbers circuits (certainly not just diode snubbers) is in "The Art of Electronics". Which I have now read from cover to cover.
I have also read this piece:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?baseLiteratureNumber=slup100&fileType=pdf
And the piece that Ed provided.
All of the sources have firmly convinced me snubbers are invaluable, but not for everything, at least based on the evidence I have so far.
So those sources are my data. And I am simply looking for more practical experimentation and demonstration of our theories and practices.
Cheers!
Russ
One other document readers may be interested in which mentions snubbers is this one:
http://www2.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/views/edoc_download.php/3285/pdf/imm3285.pdf
It is a very interesting read.
http://www2.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/views/edoc_download.php/3285/pdf/imm3285.pdf
It is a very interesting read.
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