Hi,
Snuberizing caps seems to lower cap's ESR which make the caps chrage & discharge quicker. However, the low ESR cap like panasonic FC series is not available widely, I wonder if any one ever try comparing the FC cap and normal cap with Carlos's snubberized? Any theory can explain if their effects are the same?
Thanks!
Snuberizing caps seems to lower cap's ESR which make the caps chrage & discharge quicker. However, the low ESR cap like panasonic FC series is not available widely, I wonder if any one ever try comparing the FC cap and normal cap with Carlos's snubberized? Any theory can explain if their effects are the same?
Thanks!
The snubber net serves to reduce the resonance in the ELcap net, caused by the parasite inductive (internal) element .
The low ESR even are optimized as parasitic inductance, but the principal characteristicis it's the Low ESR = Low " Equivalent Series Res .".
This parameter is not improved from external nets, and improve the performances even to low frequency.
The critical zone of resonance, managed by the snubber net is usually out of from the audio zone, and its effect in audio band is a lot of limited ( or void ).
The snubber net for the ELcap has been developed in the years 60-70 for the switching PS ( and variuos RF stage ), on account of the low efficiency that the ELcap (of the epoch) had on the high frequency troubles.
Ciao
Mauro
The low ESR even are optimized as parasitic inductance, but the principal characteristicis it's the Low ESR = Low " Equivalent Series Res .".
This parameter is not improved from external nets, and improve the performances even to low frequency.
The critical zone of resonance, managed by the snubber net is usually out of from the audio zone, and its effect in audio band is a lot of limited ( or void ).
The snubber net for the ELcap has been developed in the years 60-70 for the switching PS ( and variuos RF stage ), on account of the low efficiency that the ELcap (of the epoch) had on the high frequency troubles.
Ciao
Mauro
electrolytics, because of ESL and ESR become high impedance devices at high frequencies -- you can model this in LTSpice or TINA-TI -- the ESL for a ceramic cap can be a nano-henry (1x10e-9) or less, the ESL for a tantalum can be 2- 10 nH, and for larger electrolytics the ESL and ESR dominate the impedance at high frequencies! ( |Z| = SQRT [(ESR^2) + (XsubC - XsubL)^2]. The ESR can be a few tens of milliohms for an OSCON to many ohms for some of the dud caps found in old tube amplifiers.
Only my experience:
Low ESR = best (low cost) PSU ELcap (all applications).
If they exist problems of PS modulations (high current spikes ) Low ESR is the only system to limit it.
The "ordinary" ELcap +snubber net have not this performance.
The audio result ?
The audio result depends from the quality of the circuit, of the layout PCB and only after from this components...
But I am not experienced in audio as other that frequent this forum...
Ciao
Mauro
Low ESR = best (low cost) PSU ELcap (all applications).
If they exist problems of PS modulations (high current spikes ) Low ESR is the only system to limit it.
The "ordinary" ELcap +snubber net have not this performance.
The audio result ?
The audio result depends from the quality of the circuit, of the layout PCB and only after from this components...
But I am not experienced in audio as other that frequent this forum...
Ciao
Mauro
nina said:Thanks Jack, Mauro. But I am afraid those explanation are pretty hard for me to understand now
Let me put it another way.
A) using low-ESR cap like panasonic FC series
B) using ELNA audio with 0.1R+0.1UF snuberrized
Which one sound better?
As Mauro suggests, use an ELCAP, don't bother with the 0.1R/100n. The explanation for the snubber isn't particularly rigorous.
I would suggest 100n as close as possible to the power chip's V+ and V- pins.
Dress the power supply leads carefully, trying not to "parallel" them with either the output or input leads.
jackinnj said:
But the Power Supplu Design Tip highly recommend the RC?
Ordering only Pana FC cap from digkey cost ~ US$25. But sure if it worth doing it
For the europeans, take a look here.
www.svalander.se
Look for the Rifa PEH-169
One of the best PSU caps around.
Magura
www.svalander.se
Look for the Rifa PEH-169
One of the best PSU caps around.
Magura
nina said:
But the Power Supplu Design Tip highly recommend the RC?
Ordering only Pana FC cap from digkey cost ~ US$25. But sure if it worth doing it
I would say that real advatages of snubbering electrolytics are unclear at best, depending on best guess values and so on.
In some cases(at least on Spice simulations) added 100n+0.1R can even lead to worser result than el-caps alone.
You can download switchercad from linear website wich is free spice simulation software and do your own snubber simulations.
If you want to gain some real advantage you have to go to SMD and small components.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.