Result from comparision: Classic GC, snuberized GC and ESP101 amp.... - diyAudio
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Old 25th April 2005, 03:45 PM   #1
loong is offline loong  United Kingdom
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Lightbulb Result from comparision: Classic GC, snuberized GC and ESP101 amp....

Just wanna share our experience and wanna know what you think of the result.

During the past two weeks, 8 of music lovers (3 are DIYers, 3 are classic musicians, 1 drumer) got together and did some comparision. Below are equipments we 've used.

Amplifier:

A) classic 25W/ch LM3875
(BG 4.7UF input, FC cap 1000UF, 22.1K/681 RN60D dale res). Fedde's Chillamp alike PCB.

B) 50W /ch LM3875 with snubberized PS (rev 2), same componenys quality as bove.
C) ESP's Project101 30Wrms Mosfet Amp (high power circuit, one 25-0-25/250VA tranf and 40,000UF total)


Speakers:
----------
A). PSB Alpha B
b). DIY's fulll range Fostex 127E with external super tweeters


Setup
--------
- All config based on NAD 521BEE CD player, directly connect to the amp
- Listening room is 4 x 6 m.
- All comment/voting are done via blind tests except the last one (#8)


Results (summary)
-----------------
1. Musicians tend to like the classic 25W GC due to it's close to LIVE music. particularly for the drumer and percussion lovers.

2. Tube lover perfer the sound of classic CG + Fostex 127
3. Most of young pop/rock lover ( <30 year old) perfer Alpha B (either with snubberized CG or ESP101 amp).

4. Difficult to differentiate the Snubberized GC and ESP101 amp in general except with lounder level
5. They can diffirentiate the sound of classic GC and snuberrized one

6. Zen v4 came at the later stage. It sounds much like the Classic CG but slighly more LIVELY

7. Normalized highest scores for amps by type of music:
For vocal music --> Classic CG 25W
For percussion music --> Classic CG 25W
For classic rock/complicated music --> the ESP101 amp
For pop/rock music --> snubberized GC and ESP101 amp


8. Question: If one need to choose one amp back home for their "everyday uses" regardless of speakers, room and type of music. One vote per person:

Rank #1 - ESP101's 30W amp ( 5 out of 8) - "why- as suiatble for most of speakers, ...and most kind of music... most practical for everyday uses"

Rank #2 - Snubberized GC ( 3 out of 8) - "why - I like the bass and its details of mid"
Rank #3 - Classic GC ( 0 out of 8) - "why - Good sounding and close to LIVE MUSIC however it might be for the one who have a special good listening room and good acessaries..... too picky to work with speakers, room and type of music")


And you?
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Old 25th April 2005, 03:58 PM   #2
ble0t is offline ble0t  United States
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I've built both the classic LM3875 amp (based on BrianGTs premium kit) and the ESP101. I would have to say that I enjoy the ESP101 more than the LM3875, although I am running my ESP (link) a bit higher than yours. I think the mids and highs are more defined on the ESP101 and the bass is quite tight. Both are good amps, but I would give the edge to the ESP101 for sure.
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Old 25th April 2005, 04:12 PM   #3
GregGC is offline GregGC  Canada
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Default Re: Result from comparision: Classic GC, snuberized GC and ESP101 amp....

Quote:
Originally posted by loong
Just wanna share our experience and wanna know what you think of the result.

During the past two weeks, 8 of music lovers (3 are DIYers, 3 are classic musicians, 1 drumer) got together and did some comparision. Below are equipments we 've used.

Amplifier:

A) classic 25W/ch LM3875
(BG 4.7UF input, FC cap 1000UF, 22.1K/681 RN60D dale res). Fedde's Chillamp alike PCB.

B) 50W /ch LM3875 with snubberized PS (rev 2), same componenys quality as bove.
C) ESP's Project101 30Wrms Mosfet Amp (high power circuit, one 25-0-25/250VA tranf and 40,000UF total)


Speakers:
----------
A). PSB Alpha B
b). DIY's fulll range Fostex 127E with external super tweeters


Setup
--------
- All config based on NAD 521BEE CD player, directly connect to the amp
- Listening room is 4 x 6 m.
- All comment/voting are done via blind tests except the last one (#8)


Results (summary)
-----------------
1. Musicians tend to like the classic 25W GC due to it's close to LIVE music. particularly for the drumer and percussion lovers.

2. Tube lover perfer the sound of classic CG + Fostex 127
3. Most of young pop/rock lover ( <30 year old) perfer Alpha B (either with snubberized CG or ESP101 amp).

4. Difficult to differentiate the Snubberized GC and ESP101 amp in general except with lounder level
5. They can diffirentiate the sound of classic GC and snuberrized one

6. Zen v4 came at the later stage. It sounds much like the Classic CG but slighly more LIVELY

7. Normalized highest scores for amps by type of music:
For vocal music --> Classic CG 25W
For percussion music --> Classic CG 25W
For classic rock/complicated music --> the ESP101 amp
For pop/rock music --> snubberized GC and ESP101 amp


8. Question: If one need to choose one amp back home for their "everyday uses" regardless of speakers, room and type of music. One vote per person:

Rank #1 - ESP101's 30W amp ( 5 out of 8) - "why- as suiatble for most of speakers, ...and most kind of music... most practical for everyday uses"

Rank #2 - Snubberized GC ( 3 out of 8) - "why - I like the bass and its details of mid"
Rank #3 - Classic GC ( 0 out of 8) - "why - Good sounding and close to LIVE MUSIC however it might be for the one who have a special good listening room and good acessaries..... too picky to work with speakers, room and type of music")


And you?

What was the rail capacitance per channel of the snubberized GC?

Thanks
Greg
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Old 25th April 2005, 04:54 PM   #4
homer09 is offline homer09  Canada
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thanks for sharing, great showdown!
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Old 25th April 2005, 05:47 PM   #5
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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Those results correspond with mine.

The snubberised PSU enables the GC to keep control with difficult/more demanding passages of music such as rock. For overall listening, I am using the snubberised LM3886.

But the 'classical' 1000 uF/rail LM3875 (inverted in my case) has a bit more 'magic' and comes out better with acoustic type music. That 'magic' is lost in the snubberised version (I have tried both LM3875 and LM3886 snubberised).

All versions that I am talking about above were auditioned buffered.
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Old 25th April 2005, 05:56 PM   #6
loong is offline loong  United Kingdom
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Default Re: Re: Result from comparision: Classic GC, snuberized GC and ESP101 amp....

Quote:
Originally posted by GregGC



What was the rail capacitance per channel of the snubberized GC?

Thanks
Greg
Is is almost the same as http://www.chipamp.com/images/ps-rev3-sch.gif but using ONE bridge and 0.22UF cap per channel.
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Old 25th April 2005, 06:11 PM   #7
loong is offline loong  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nuuk
Those results correspond with mine.

The snubberised PSU enables the GC to keep control with difficult/more demanding passages of music such as rock. For overall listening, I am using the snubberised LM3886.

But the 'classical' 1000 uF/rail LM3875 (inverted in my case) has a bit more 'magic' and comes out better with acoustic type music. That 'magic' is lost in the snubberised version (I have tried both LM3875 and LM3886 snubberised).

All versions that I am talking about above were auditioned buffered.

Nuuk - I've learnt lots of things from your informative site. Thanks. :-)

Some of us joke that they might plan to have a couple of amp when listening to different type of music. Snubberized 50W GC for everyday uses (mostly pop/rock music). While the classical 25W GC is for more seriously listening of vocal/acoustic or even light classical music. Nothing is ideal and suit for all.



BTW, if I have to pick ONE and the only one for my "living" room, I would go for Fedde's Chillamp-alike 25W classic GC (22K/680 all carbon film res) as it's LIVELY like the music is being played there!

I don't cares what hi-fi/good measured spec is as long as I enjoy its sound of music.

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Old 25th April 2005, 06:25 PM   #8
Mark25 is offline Mark25  United Kingdom
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In my experience you'd get a LOT better results out of the ESP 101 by using the low power cct and a dual mono power supply like THIS by Dejan Veselinovic of TNT.
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Old 25th April 2005, 07:10 PM   #9
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Nuuk - I've learnt lots of things from your informative site. Thanks. :-)
And khapkoon to you for the wonderful time that I have spent in your lovely country. I'm glad that I could give something back.

Quote:
Some of us joke that they might plan to have a couple of amp when listening to different type of music.
I very nearly said the same thing! In fact, as the GC circuits are relatively compact, it wouldn't be too difficult to house two in the same case! But I'm not sure if there is a convenient way to switch speakers between them.
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Old 25th April 2005, 07:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Re: Re: Result from comparision: Classic GC, snuberized GC and ESP101 amp....

Quote:
Originally posted by loong
Is is almost the same as http://www.chipamp.com/images/ps-rev3-sch.gif but using ONE bridge and 0.22UF cap per channel.
And why didn't you use the recommended 0.1uf on the snubber?
Sounds better.
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