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Old 6th October 2004, 09:03 PM   #1
Franz G is offline Franz G  Switzerland
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Default Chipclone and speaker: suggestions for a perfect combination?

Gainclones in every variants (of course the best imho VBIGC with t-net) are very clever amps with very actual technology.

And what about easy, (relatively) cheap and very suitable speakers together with GC's?

I open this thread, because I found a very perfect combination GC/speaker...

Here it is:

Fostex FE103E in the recommended enclosure (backloaded horn, I compared this GC/speaker combination with many backloaded horns, Buschhorn, Cornu Spiralhorn, Coral Beta8 in FE206E).

My FE103E version looks like this (it is a perfect Nagaoka style horn):

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

No zobel, no LR, nothing needed at output (cables max 5-6 feet).

And a great result! Nothing is missing, but you never heard such a "dry" bass, I am sure.

But I know: my way is not the "true" way or the only way! Many roads are leading to Rome.

This thread is open, for everyone to document his GC/speaker combination.

But please: add every needed link and info for the speaker right here, as I try to do.

Here:

Plan for the horn enclosure:

http://www.fostexinternational.com/d.../103e_encl.pdf

Datasheet of the FE103E

http://www.fostexinternational.com/d...fe103erev2.pdf

And last, but not least (how could I miss that?): an Excel sheet for the recommended enclosure with 16mm MDF/plywood, not 15mm like the original plan.

Again: I just opened this thread, because the combination is REALLY absolutely amazing! And I hope for good alternative information, maybe there is something more simple and better out in the world?

Franz
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Old 6th October 2004, 10:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Chipclone and speaker: suggestions for a perfect combination?

Quote:
Originally posted by Franz G

And a great result! Nothing is missing, but you never heard such a "dry" bass, I am sure.


What bass are you talking about?

If the specs are right, there's no more bass by 100Hz.

Perhaps it's a good speaker for certain types of music, like jazz quartets or chamber music. But I don't see that speaker doing so well in orchestral music, for instance. Quite directional too.

But curves certainly do not tell it all.

I do believe in a single speaker handling large frequency ranges, but it has to stand larger wattages too. 60/80 watts at least.

My problem with actual single speaker designs I have listened to, mostly Lowther based, is they do not sound dynamic and seem program dependant.


Carlos
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Old 7th October 2004, 12:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Re: Chipclone and speaker: suggestions for a perfect combination?

Quote:
Originally posted by carlmart
What bass are you talking about?


Quote:
Originally posted by carlmart
If the specs are right, there's no more bass by 100Hz.
That's why it's "dry".

Quote:
Originally posted by carlmart
My problem with actual single speaker designs I have listened to, mostly Lowther based, is they do not sound dynamic and seem program dependant.
Yes, the problem with fullranges is that to have decent high-frequency the speakers need to be small.
But then they have no bass.
Use a bigger driver and treble goes away.

Anyway, there's a predominant midband (where the drivers have more sensitivity) that it's not what I call neutral.
If I was to use a fullrange driver I would end up with a three-way speaker.
Maby Franz has a special way of getting decent bass from a small fullrange driver?
BTW Franz, beautiful speaker.
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Old 7th October 2004, 01:18 AM   #4
ofb is offline ofb
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but carlos... you neglected to say what speaker would be better. what do you prefer to use with the gc? either simple as franz is asking, or complex, or both. i'm curious for your view.
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Old 7th October 2004, 01:36 AM   #5
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I run a couple of 16 PE drivers/ribbon tweets line arrays with my BrianGT NIGC. Killer.

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Line array

No shortage of UMPH.
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Old 7th October 2004, 05:47 AM   #6
Franz G is offline Franz G  Switzerland
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@Carlos and Carlos:

your reaction is more than ignorant! Please, don't blame yourself, when you dont understand something!

Your reaction is just the same, when I tell some tube freak, he should listen to a VBIGC: complete ignorance.

O.K.

If this is your way!

Quote:
If the specs are right, there's no more bass by 100Hz.
Hey man: this are the specs from the speaker, not the measurements from the horn.

Franz
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Old 7th October 2004, 06:12 AM   #7
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I am planning to build Tim Forman's bipole Voigt pipes with FE103/RS 40-1197s to go with my VBIGC (still unfinished... ). I haven't heard them, but those who have are quite impressed.

I would post a link to Tim's site, but when I try to open the page now, I only get a message saying that the file is missing ...
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Old 7th October 2004, 11:32 AM   #8
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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I like the idea of this thread!

The Gainclone enabled us to build an excellent sounding amp for minimal cost. I think what Franz is getting at, is can we now find a really good sounding speaker that will go with the GC and provide megabucks sound for minibucks cost?

Of course, speakers tend to depend more on the listening room (and musical preferences) than a GC will, and that will influence the choice of speaker type, box, horn types, open baffle etc.

I find open baffles sound very good and are relatively easy to design if a full-range driver is used. BUT, I have augmented the main drivers in mine with (big) TL woofers and a tweeter (just in case Carlos visits you understand), so I can't really claim they are so simple of low-cost anymore.

On the other hand, the OB's that Norbert constructed with the Ciare 250 drivers are a fine example of a low-cost high-quality speaker that is fairly easy to construct as well!

Horns do seem to be like valve amps by which I mean that you have ardent followers of them or others that want to stay well clear. Although very happy with my present speakers, I will try horns when I can afford to build some. I do agree that the OB's can sound a little undynamic so will horns 'do it for me'?

And what about active speakers? The amplification is still low-cost with a GC; and an active crossover does not have to be either costly or complex.

I can thoroughly recommend the active speakers as described on Decibel Dungeon. They worked well with my old Arcam A60 amps and I am sure they will sound even better with GC amplification (when I can find the time to hook it all up!)

But for me, the goal will always be somethng as simple as possible. Something that a beginner could put together easily, not cost too much, and sound beautiful with the GC!

Franz has put his FE103 horns up as an example and for me they go some way to meeting the above requirements. So let's not knock them but instead come up with other viable suggestions!
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Old 7th October 2004, 11:46 AM   #9
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Hi!

Here is what I use my GC with (actually, mine looks a lot better, this site has nothing to do with me...):

Cheap Trick 193

Click the image to open in full size.

The price I paid for materials (including chassis) was 35 per speaker...

The combination sits in my sleeping room, and you'd be amazed at the amount of bass this combo produces in a not so big room (and that comes from someone who uses a 120l / 15" Subwoofer in his main system...)


Bye,

Arndt
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Old 7th October 2004, 12:59 PM   #10
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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Quote:
The price I paid for materials (including chassis) was 35 per speaker...
Well done Arndt! That's the sort of price range that I like!
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