Here is the photo of the "Silver-Carbon" pot that I've mentioned from time to time. This is clearly different from the Panasonic (supposedly also S-C) available from Thiel in Germany and others:
This is the only pot I know that sounds uncoloured to me. The only pot I know that can stand comparison to a pair of resistors making up a "static" pot. And yes, it's tiny and soldering needs to be up to the job. Please note, it's not a quarter inch shaft, it requires a standard spline knob.
Here is my earlier post which describes the static resistor test that can be repeated with all pots:
Please read: 2 Unrelated questions -buffers and transformer mounting - diyAudio
Now Peter Daniel was dissapointed with the Panasonic S-C pot. It could be the lack of character (neutrality?) it may have if it sounds the same as mine? Hope Peter doesn't mind me saying that. One has to make allowance that some may not like it? Maybe they wouldn't like the DACT or similarly? Or perhaps my pot (I hope you don't mind me calling it that) is in fact that much better than the Panasonic? I just don't know.
Maybe somebody should get their hands on a Panasonic and do the same static resistor test, it's not a difficult one to do (and can be done with any pot). And if the Panasonic is up to the job, then some will like it and others will not.
The beauty of the static resistor test is that you have a real reference, it takes out the 'taste' factor and forces you to make an objective assessment/judgment. Try it, set it up and do it to a series of pots, this is what DIY is all about, then report back the findings.
So there you have it, a challenge that anybody can participate in, only basic equipment and your ears are required.
Joe R.
PS:For the photographic bums like myself, the above photo was with the latest Canon Pro-1 Series, 8 MegaPixel Digital Camera
This is the only pot I know that sounds uncoloured to me. The only pot I know that can stand comparison to a pair of resistors making up a "static" pot. And yes, it's tiny and soldering needs to be up to the job. Please note, it's not a quarter inch shaft, it requires a standard spline knob.
Here is my earlier post which describes the static resistor test that can be repeated with all pots:
Please read: 2 Unrelated questions -buffers and transformer mounting - diyAudio
Now Peter Daniel was dissapointed with the Panasonic S-C pot. It could be the lack of character (neutrality?) it may have if it sounds the same as mine? Hope Peter doesn't mind me saying that. One has to make allowance that some may not like it? Maybe they wouldn't like the DACT or similarly? Or perhaps my pot (I hope you don't mind me calling it that) is in fact that much better than the Panasonic? I just don't know.
Maybe somebody should get their hands on a Panasonic and do the same static resistor test, it's not a difficult one to do (and can be done with any pot). And if the Panasonic is up to the job, then some will like it and others will not.
The beauty of the static resistor test is that you have a real reference, it takes out the 'taste' factor and forces you to make an objective assessment/judgment. Try it, set it up and do it to a series of pots, this is what DIY is all about, then report back the findings.
So there you have it, a challenge that anybody can participate in, only basic equipment and your ears are required.
Joe R.
PS:For the photographic bums like myself, the above photo was with the latest Canon Pro-1 Series, 8 MegaPixel Digital Camera
Last edited:
Peter Daniel said:
OK, maybe you're right re Panasonic. I used Beyschlag MF and compared to them any conductive plastic was far more colured. But the levels has to be within 0.1dB of each other, measured on the speaker terminals, switchable so that audio memory doesn't fail. That is the only way to conduct this test.
(BTW, this is also a useful way to test amps.)
If the levels are not matched precisely, the test will tend to favour the louder. I did another 'blind level reference test' where I increased by 0.6dB and my unware listener said this was definitely more 'transparent' and better. It wasn't, it was the exact same gear.
Joe R.
Nevertherless, Panasonic is a really nice pot. It does not posses the brightness that some Nobels have and sounds rather sweet. However, I was missing the last word in transparency, the discreet attenuator exhibits. I can suspect that Panasonic will appeal to tube enthusiasts
Testing a pot, like anything else in audio, greatly depends on the rest of a setup, more specificaly what is before the pot and what comes after.
Testing a pot, like anything else in audio, greatly depends on the rest of a setup, more specificaly what is before the pot and what comes after.
Joe Rasmussen said:
Joe,
Forgive me if I'm totally off track but that pot looks suspicously similar to what can be bought from Jaycar in NZ (you have them in Aus too!) for NZ$7.00 -- that's approx US$3.50 for the dual gang version.
I think I have one at home somewhere..
here's the link to Jaycar pot.
Maybe I'm wrong. Does yours have any identifying marks on it?
SteveM
I almost hate to ask, but has anyone tried using linear wirewound ten-turns? They've been in my passive for almost a decade now and I've never felt the need to swap them out. With ten turns the linear aspect is no big deal, and I do like the fact that the audio never jumps from metal to plastic (or carbon) to metal.
Just wondering about the experiences of others.
Just wondering about the experiences of others.
jaycar pots are definite cheap imitations, although if someone were willing id love to know how much difference there ACTUALLY is.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Peter Daniel said:
For sure. I like Beyschlags because I have to keep a very large number and values in hand, got a $1000 plus worth. I am not saying that selective use of other more exotic types will not improve sound (oops, I just used a double-negative - I gotta watch my grammar
).I like the DACT asused in my RTP Reference Preamp (a VSEI design), and although not cheap, they are very good for the money. I can justify them is a $20.000+ preamp, no doubt.
But what is the best Pot?
That is in some ways a more exciting question, as Carlos indeed said on another thread. Real world affordability is a worthwhile quest.
Joe R.
jamesjung21 said:
Yeah,
I was wondering about that too...
Cheers,
JayJay
You need not wonder. Why does a decent (audio wise) pot have to be expensive?
No they are not!
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVi...d2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
http://www.taiwanalpha.com/en/product.htm
Joe R.
Hang on, I'm not missing something here, am I? Joe, are you saying that your favourite pot is available from Jaycar? I like decent audio AND cheap price!
I have a couple of Alpha metalcased 50k log pots I was thinking of using. I wonder if they are up to the same standards as their (your?) little plastic jobs?
I was just reading somewhere that Alpha makes 7,000,000 pots per month!
I have a couple of Alpha metalcased 50k log pots I was thinking of using. I wonder if they are up to the same standards as their (your?) little plastic jobs?
I was just reading somewhere that Alpha makes 7,000,000 pots per month!
carlosfm said:Exciting.
Oh yes.
And cheap!
And small!
I like it.
Maby there's a place in Europe where to buy them?
I like it too.
So now my big, or should I say little secret is out. This pot is really tiny. It is a "9mm" class pot.
Strange enough I cannot find this exact one on Alpha's website - so I wonder if Jaycar picked up a big stash of these made OEM for another manufacturer/supplier?
I should have known that my secret would come out with that photo, but as Solomon said, "spread a little on water and some of it will come back..." - I suppose he meant goodwill and a bit more...?
I am quite sure Jaycar will accept overseas orders. And at the price, even shipping costs are acceptable just to try one. So maybe we can keep this thread going as others start listening to them. I use the 50K Log and that is the link I have shown. Channel balance is no worse than 0.5dB and often better, on the samples I have measured. Hope that will stay.
Oh, I must confess, I have a little history with Jaycar. Quite a few years ago I did some consultancy work for Gary Johnston, owner of Jaycar. I measured Taiwanese/Chinese speakers/drivers to find the best of the batch of samples, my work was later incorporated as comments, T-S values, recommended box types and tuning etc in Jaycar Catalogues. In those days very few computer systems for measuring T-S Parameters were available (unlike today - I now use ClioWin) that I had to write the software myself (it helps to live in the same town as A.N.Thiele).
phs said:
They are better than any conductive plastics that I know about - the Alps (Blue and Black) and the chunky Noble, Allen-Bradley Mod-Pots and Bournes - in terms of colouration and tonal neutrality. That is my opinion.
So what do I do if I now get a whole bunch of opposing views in the near future? Maybe find a hole to hide in.
Joe R.
NICE!!!
Because Jaycar is less than 50M away from my school
Have a look at this quotation from Jaycar:
"These pots are rapidly becoming the industry standard for miniaturised audio, digital and telecommunications equipment."
If anybody needs this pot in a small quantity, I can help you to get some...
I can probably send'em in small packets at my local post shop...
But I don't want hundreds of people asking me to help! I can just help a few people, so that they can try it without having much trouble...
Just contact me via : sendtojamesj@hotmail.com if you need help.
Cheers,
James Jung
Because Jaycar is less than 50M away from my school
Have a look at this quotation from Jaycar:
"These pots are rapidly becoming the industry standard for miniaturised audio, digital and telecommunications equipment."
If anybody needs this pot in a small quantity, I can help you to get some...
I can probably send'em in small packets at my local post shop...
But I don't want hundreds of people asking me to help! I can just help a few people, so that they can try it without having much trouble...
Just contact me via : sendtojamesj@hotmail.com if you need help.
Cheers,
James Jung
Mouser sells Alpha pots:
http://www.mouser.com/taiwanalpha/
Maby they have or can get that specific pot.
Joe, is there a reference number or something on those pots?
http://www.mouser.com/taiwanalpha/
Maby they have or can get that specific pot.
Joe, is there a reference number or something on those pots?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.